What’s More Natural Than Nature? – Confessions of a Serial Online Dater, part 3
Want to go on a hike?
The question seemed innocuous enough, or so I thought when I emailed it to Nature Girl, a woman I met on Yahoo personals. We had passed the initial stages of online romance with flying colors:
• We liked each other’s photos – and we trusted they were recent and accurate (i.e. not a picture of a sibling or friend. Though how you ascertain that, I’m not sure. Perhaps it’s an instinct honed through gazillions of profile views and countless first dates)
• We liked each other’s physical stats – she fell in my ideal woman’s height range (5’2-5’6), and possessed a body type (slim, slender, athletic), hair color (brunette or black), and ethnicity (exotic) that turned my head.
• We passed each other’s search filters – college educated, single or divorced, living within 50-miles of our designated City or Zip/Postal Code.
Most important, we had enough in common – 80% of our checkboxes were similarly marked! – that we wanted to meet.
I’d prefer coffee, she wrote back.
Sigh. I’d grown tired of coffee dates, those fact-finding information exchanges that modern singles embrace as necessities like college-bound kids taking the SAT. What happened to good old fashioned flirting?
Aren’t you sick of coffee dates? I wrote.
We could do drinks in a nice restaurant, she wrote. Maybe grab a bite.
Oh, boy. I’d gone that route before when CityGirl turned a coffee date into a gourmet meal at an upscale Silicon Valley restaurant. I wouldn’t be sucker-punched twice. Besides, I liked dating women who were fit and active. Hiking, cycling, running, skiing, boogie boarding – all things I enjoy doing with a girlfriend.
Hiking would be fun, I wrote. Your profile says you love nature.
I do, she wrote. But let’s save a hike for our third date.
I’d heard of third-date sex, but third-date hiking? This was ridiculous. It wasn’t like I was pushing sexy flirty dirty text messages on her. I was suggesting a hike in nature, and what’s more natural than that?
Can I ask why the resistance? I wrote. A hike would be a refreshing change for a first date.
I don’t know you, she wrote. You might drag me off the trail and do something bad. A girl can’t be too careful.
Was she serious?
A guy could do something bad in a restaurant parking lot, I wrote. We’ll hike Crystal Springs. It’s totally safe. (Crystal Springs had a well-traveled paved trail, which meant there would be parents with baby strollers and kids on bikes. An extremely family-friendly environment. It’s not like we’d be having outside sex there, whether on a first date or not!)
I love Crystal Springs, she wrote. But sorry, I have my dating limits. Let’s meet for drinks. We can flirt and see what happens.
This is where I lost it. Here’s a woman implying that something might happen beyond drinks, once she’d met in a safe, public, indoor place and sized me up. Hookup or booty call? Possibly. Yet, she didn’t trust the online dating scene enough to go on a friggin’ hike!
We didn’t meet.
The funny thing about all this, we might just run into each other someday when we’re both out enjoying nature (you never know, the dating pool is rather small). Would we have the courage to flirt without an online introduction? I certainly hope so. It seems like the natural thing to do.
- Online Dating – Sadly, I’m an Expert
- Sexy and Funny Dating Stories
- How To Pick Up a Woman in Front of Your Son
- Texting for Chemistry – Confessions of a Serial Online Dater, part 2
- How to Date Four Women at Once
- Sexy Flirty Dirty Text Messages
- Dirty Text Message Jokes
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Comment by Ms. S
| May 20th, 2008
I think I understand you feeling offended by her being so suspicious. But I remember once had a similar situation. We had been talking on the phone for a week, and we had agreed to hang out on Thursday or Friday. He calls me Thursday and says he is busy, so I made plans with a friend, sorry. He didn’t want to join us at the pub, so I suggested to go out on Friday as originally planned. Instead of suggesting any public space, he called me that evening to pick me up in his car and go somewhere where we could have some space and talk. I don’t think he is a bad person, people are inherently good, but what can I say… I just had a feeling not to do that. I didn’t feel safe.
Comment by Honey
| May 20th, 2008
Hm. To be honest I think you played it a little pushy, DM. My recent posting about asking for numbers and why it can be dangerous struck Lance the same way…as kind of absurd. And maybe it is, but if you can’t respect her comfort zone before you’ve even met, then why should she meet you? She did offer to hike on the third date. I say you could have respected her desire for a restaurant (lame as I agree it is) but insisted that you pick the venue (so that you don’t get stuck with a huge bill or whatever). I did a third-date hike with a perfectly fine fellow or two, myself :-)
Comment by dadshouse
| May 20th, 2008
Ms. S and Honey – I appreciate your feminine perspective. I should add that I’ve met plenty of other women for first-date hikes. So, as pushy as I may have sounded this time, other women gladly joined me out in nature for a first-time meet.
Comment by Kai
| May 20th, 2008
As a single woman, I have to agree with the lady, meeting someone for the first time for a hike is much riskier than meeting in a public restaurant. Yes, someone could do something in a parking lot just as easily, but the chances are someone would notice, drag someone off in a secluded wooded area and it would be weeks before it was discovered. I agree that the coffee/dinner/drinks trifecta gets old after awhile, but as she said, a single girl just can’t be too careful.
Comment by mssinglemama
| May 20th, 2008
Yep … should have had that conversation over the phone – not by e-mail. Had you even talked on the phone before this?
Did sound a little pushy. And, I agree with her, I would never go on a first date hike – but not because of a fear of death – because of a fear of being trapped in the woods with a guy who I didn’t click with. Coffee is best because you can cut it short if need be, or linger on …
Comment by Happily Dating a Single Dad
| May 20th, 2008
Have to agree with the above posts. Yeah, coffee dates are waaay overdone – Starbucks is possibly the least romantic place in the world. But the last time I received an invitation to “go for a walk in the woods” I heard the music to Deliverance in my head. My coffee date with an online-personals Single Dad turned into a lovely dinner at a casual neighborhood bistro and drinks that night, and lots of bike rides and hikes later. Sometimes it doesn’t hurt to play by the rules.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 20th, 2008
I hope someone from the Bay Area who has hiked the paved path at Crystal Springs chimes in… this trail is lined by a fence to keep the deer away, and has no woods to duck into. It’s FILLED with runners, joggers, strollers, cyclists, kids, parents, etc.
I understand the hesitation of all you ladies, but if you only knew what Crystal Springs was like.
Now, if I had suggested a first-date hike at Big Basin, I’d understand.
Coffee dates suck. But from the sound of all you women, I need to take my caffeine like a man, and leave hiking for established girlfriends. (I still think it’s a sad state of affairs when two adults can’t hike on a busy trail. And no, I don’t take it personally. It’s a reflection on online dating and our society.)
Comment by Kelly
| May 20th, 2008
Read your blog everyday, haven’t commented yet.
Love to hear your outlook on things…
Back when I was doing some online dating, I found myself feeling persuaded at times do agree to things I didn’t feel comfortable doing. This was a big turn off.
Usually, people’s reactions have more to do with them than with you. I wouldn’t take her hesitance to hike (oh, read that one aloud!!) as a stab against you. I had some VERY unfavorable situations with men (including a stalker) that led me to be very cautious. This obviously didn’t mix well w/ online dating. That being said, you never know if something happened to her. I don’t think she was wrong at all to nix hiking for the first date…seems like she’d prefer a public place you both can meet at. That’s safety 101. Again, that has NOTHING to do with you…you seem awesome and quite safe. :)
If anything, I think the fact that she held her ground says a lot about her character. If you had so much in common, I may reconsider if she’s willing. Not likely. (Just being honest.)
Comment by OneManThreeKids
| May 20th, 2008
Your blogs simply rock!!
I think she was simply being cautious and choosing to stay in her comfort /safe zone. Even I try to keep the first meeting to a short one (lunch/coffee/drinks) just in case the physical chemistry and or communication isn’t there. I need to click or I may fake the call from the kids. My time is valuable (as is her’s) and dating can be expensive here in N.Dallas. I liked your idea and desire to do something fresh and outside the box…
You are further along in this journey than I am…Your wisdom / experience is a great asset in this my single dad trying to date world. I am considering the online world again…just can be so draining.
Comment by stradasphere
| May 20th, 2008
Hey man, got here via iheart…I am on my way to a separation and, having read this, I can’t help thinking…”shit, is this what I have ahead of me?” I haven’t been out there in 8 years…last I remember there was no online dating and coffee dates were considered very hip…I will be back here for some bro-help soon!
strada
Comment by BrycesMom
| May 20th, 2008
As a former online dater, I also would respect her first-date-coffee request. I understand your impatience with the need to jump through such hoops, but please recognize that (esp. for women) there are very real reasons for doing so. And she may not trust her own intuition and experience as much as you do, to feel comfortable jumping right in. She may also interpret your response as, “well if he doesn’t respect that request, what else won’t he understand?” Okay, maybe that is stretching (assumes she’s even putting that much thought into it) but based on my past experiences, much more likely scenarios are that she’s been through first dates that were scary, ran too long or had no chemistry, or never even happened (got blown off) – but at least coffee is low risk, low commitment.
p.s. I do think a hike sounds great! for a 2nd or 3rd date…. Another idea is joining a group hike (though again, more hoops to jump through) since that’s what Crystal Springs sounds like anyway. :)
Comment by debra
| May 20th, 2008
I’m completely with MSM on this one, being stuck on a hike with someone that you discover you have no in person connection with could be painful. Given your description of how busy the area is, I’m betting she had suffered her fair share of surprising disappointments on first dates and wanted to be sure she was someplace she could make a subtle exit if need be.
That said, I am totally with you on the first dates…..I dread them so much I almost missed out on meeting a great guy this weekend. Running is a second date thing with me, drinks first in case I need to turn it into a quick drink and duck out if there’s no ‘click’. Besides, a girl wants to get all pretty on a first date, and given the temps lately, nothing pretty about a glistening brow until you already know she is exotic all dressed up to go out!
Comment by dadshouse
| May 20th, 2008
I’m a sucker for the glistening brow! But I love all-dressed-up, too.
I am learning much from you people today. I never knew hiking was such a touchy first-date subject.
And unfortunately, because I dread first date coffee so much, and because I was in a bad place w.r.t. online dating when I met this woman, I missed out on getting to know her. Shame on me.
Comment by The Exception
| May 20th, 2008
Although I can see the point about the hike, I also think that there is a world of possibilities for that first date that exist outside and beyond the coffee shop. Personally, I am more relaxed and at ease while walking and talking. Even if the pair don’t click, there is often enough to chat about that a walk doesn’t seem uncomfortable.
Comment by heather
| May 20th, 2008
Wow, I don’t envy anyone who is single and trying to date. Wouldn’t go back there again for a million years. God help me if anything happens to my husband, cuz I’ll just be alone for the rest of my life. Much easier.
Comment by littlemansmom
| May 20th, 2008
I’ve got to agree with the consensus here….I would never meet for a hike as a second date…BUT…I agree that cooffee dates are becoming mundain and the same. That’s why I suggest things like the art gallery, or the museum, or biking along the lakeshore. All public places, all allow for conversation and all allow for a little elbow room and an escape (if needed lol)
Pingback by Thou Shalt Always… « Ms. Single Mama | May 20th, 2008
[...] Read it and weep everyone. [...]
Comment by mssinglemama
| May 20th, 2008
Sorry Dad’s House (David) – I couldn’t resist. I just couldn’t … this story is just such a prime example of what not to do.
http://mssinglemama.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/thou-shalt-always/
I love you! Kisses.
XOXO
Ms. Single Mama
Comment by Lance
| May 20th, 2008
Bro, you know I love ya. But I have to agree with the ladies on this on–Hi, ladies!!
Go simple on the first date and plan for 1-2 hours at the first location. I try to keep my first dates to the same location(s) and follow the same pattern, but with options if it goes well. Sounds tedious and scripted, and it is. But, you’ve got to have a little strategy here and you want to cut down on variables. Here’s my basic outline:
1. Meet for drinks at a bar I’m familiar with. If she doesn’t drink, then coffee or tea.
2. Plan for talking and fluff for 1-2 hours.
3. If it’s going great, bounce to a restaurant for food, again with a menu I’m familiar with.
4. If things continue to go well, suggest post-dinner drinks at a different place, going for ice cream, going dancing, going to a lounge with a DJ, or even going back to my place to listen to music and making out on the couch.
As the date progresses, try to escalate and increase sexual framing (ie sexy flirting)at each locale. It’s almost like stringing together a bunch of mini-dates.
Save the hiking and Ultimate Frisbee for after you’ve bonked her.
Comment by pajama momma
| May 20th, 2008
She’s prolly just nervous because that woman hiker got her head bashed in recently while on a hiking trip. scary
Why not a coffee date? Who knows, maybe by the 3rd date she’ll be riding dirty on ya on a hiking trail somewhere.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 20th, 2008
MSM – no worries. If I was an expert at finding Ms. Right, I’d have a girlfriend right now! Live and learn.
And even though most of you said hiking on the first date is bad bad bad, I have met a few women who went hiking or running on a first date with me, no problem. Maybe they are the 2% of women willing to do that. And if I go back to coffee dates, I’ll tap into the 98% and increase my odds. Genius!
Comment by singleworkingmommy
| May 20th, 2008
This post and comments makes me giggle.
dadshouse–Were the girls you met for first date hikes/runs women you met in person before? Because if I’ve met someone in person, I’d be more likely to do a hike/bike/whatever is not in a coffee shop or expensive restaurant date than with someone I just talked to online.
I know if I “click” with someone I’ve met “IRL” so I’m willing to take a chance. I know there is some sort of connection there, so I’d be more likely to hike. But it’s hard to know if you *really* click with someone you’ve just exchanged emails with. Or that he might drag me past the joggers, over the deer fence, and into the non-woods.
Comment by The Exception
| May 21st, 2008
There are several interesting issues in this post. If you don’t mind, I am going to link to it to write a few thoughts of my own.
As a single mother whose daughter thinks she will be an orphan if anything happens to me, I am extremely thoughtful when it comes to safety. I also have a profession that requires me to be aware and to understand all sorts of risks. Saying “no” to your hike idea would have never crossed my mind if the e-mail exchange was smooth and without hick-ups or warning signs. I am surprised at the response that you received to this idea by so many women. Every woman has to make their own call. I didn’t think you were pushy, just curious as to her reasoning.
Comment by Jorge Fitz-Gibbon
| May 21st, 2008
Personally, it seemed to me that the woman’s comments, although they could be read as offensive in print, were probably intended in a more lighthearted way. Nonetheless, when I was dating online I always took it as a given that women in particular would be more cautious in setting up first dates. Online dating is simply a different experience for women than it is for men. So, I expected a certain level of guardedness. Obviously, it’s up to you, or anyone setting up a date, to determine whether you’re uncomfortable with the level of guardedness. But I’m hardly an expert. I’m just really good about throwing my two cents in!
Comment by Susan
| May 21st, 2008
DH, I have to ditto many/most of the comments above in that I’ve gladly gone to public places (coffee places included) for a first date, but I’d be hesitant to hike — NOT just for the safety reason (although that is a very important one), but because a hike takes longer than coffee. What if we don’t like each other after a half hour (or 15 minutes)? What if there’s no chemistry “offline”? What if your idea of a hike is a 5 mile extravaganza and I’m thinking a nice 2 miler, or one of us sweats profusely or whatever? It just might be too much too soon — as you learned for this lady.
Comment by A Girlfriend
| May 21st, 2008
I’m with her on this one. Not only could it possibly be dangerous, but she would have to commit to a couple (possibly more) hours with you. For someone you haven’t met, that is a LOT. I know, I did that before. Went on a blind date hike with a guy. Spent ALL day with him because I didn’t have a way out of it. It sucked.
Comment by singlemomseeking
| May 21st, 2008
Wow, David, you really touched a nerve with this one!
I dread coffee dates, too…. but like the other women here, I won’t go on a first-date hike, either. You’re right: I don’t know this particular trail, but like Ms. Single Mama says, a coffee date gives you an easy out if you’re not clicking. It could be tea in the garden, a beer in an outdoor pub.
Unless, I had a big dog with me, I wouldn’t go. Great post.
Comment by Hadley
| May 21st, 2008
I agree with the woman here–no way I’d go alone on a hike with someone I was meeting for the first time. I also would be turned off by a man who didn’t respect my boundaries when it comes to safety.
I’d go road biking, skiing at a resort, boogie boarding at a populated beach. Hiking? Nope, not happening.
I appreciate that you suggested a populated hike in the end, but by that point your forcefulness in pushing the hiking idea was probably raising red flags for her.
Comment by Jonathon
| May 21st, 2008
I always thought that was the most frustrating part about dating — online or not. The steps for getting to know someone are always the same, and after a few dates, going through the motions seems kind of pointless.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 21st, 2008
I think my “forcefulness” comes across that way in the retelling of the story in blog form. My tone with this woman wasn’t forceful at all.
Hadley, I find it interesting you’d go boogie boarding on a first date. A lot of women wouldn’t have the guts to meet in a swimsuit! Good for you!
Jonathan – I agree! Too many first dates leads to mundane drudgery! I think others “dread” first dates for this very reason.
Who knew hiking brought out such strong opinions!?
Comment by Hadley
| May 21st, 2008
One side effect of loving outdoors activities is feeling good in a swimsuit. Rather than thinking about how I’d look, I’d be thinking about what my date was going to look like in his swimsuit!
Comment by pisceshanna
| May 21st, 2008
Living in Colorado, you might as well drink coffee, have a romantic dinner and get your Masters online while hiking. Its not creepy, its not scary, its actually a mood booster, and gives you something physical to do while making conversation. I actually think its less intimidating than sitting face to face with someone, being forced to talk because you have nothing else to do. I’m all for the hike, but maybe thats because I’m from a small, hike-friendly town, where you are more likely to get shot/stabbed at the bar during drunken cowboys brawls. Outdoors in the sunshine would definitely be my preference.
Comment by Backpacking Dad
| May 21st, 2008
Is it ok if I hate your life for you a little bit? You stay positive; I’ll take all the crap you probably want to feel and I’ll take it on a hike.
Comment by Kelly
| May 22nd, 2008
If your chemistry clicks it shouldn’t matter where you meet her, whether it’s a coffee shop, park.. all that will fade into the background anyway if your a match personality wise. I would be a little put off by a guy I don’t know seemingly “nudging” me to do something I didn’t want to do. I don’t know anything about the area you planned to hike, but when you saw her hesitation you should have recognized it and compromised. Oh well, live and learn!
Comment by Jonathan
| May 22nd, 2008
Dude. Go where she wants.
It’s really that simple. It’s just a 1st date. It’s just a f2f meeting. It doesn’t matter where you are. Go hiking later.
Go where she wants. Always.
Dude.
Comment by 1st time reader
| May 22nd, 2008
You sound very sweet. That being said. I don’t blame her for a second. A first date hike is creepy when not having met in person and especially creepy having met over the internet. I am NOT the paranoid type either. I am a small town girl who moved to NYC and have been there for 8 years.
The fact that you kept pressing the issue is even worse. Put it this way – would you want your daughter going on a first date hiking?? In the woods?? I don’t care how crowded the trail is. I went on a 2nd or may have been 3rd date hiking and it was horrible… he brought me a lunch I didn’t like, and on the hike I realized we weren’t compatible….. then I was stuck with him in the woods for the next 2 hrs. Hell!
From your blog post it came off like you were controlling in general by pushing the issue and controlling the meeting place. I agree with commenter Jonathan: “Go where she wants. Always” perfectly said………
Comment by BrycesMom
| May 22nd, 2008
WAIT! just one more comment, though, before everyone gets scared off hiking: I met my husband through the Sierra Club. Both of us were volunteers, taking underprivileged kids on outdoor trips. (It’s called Inner City Outings in case you want to check it out. The Sierra Club also has singles chapters.) So we met over hiking – and biking, and camping, and kayaking, etc.
We bonded over (among other things) our online dating horror stories. Oh the irony.
Comment by Victoria
| May 25th, 2008
If she said she liked nature, a hike should have been a refreshing change to the usual coffee date. Or maybe she was very comfortable with those and didn’t want to risk having to hike when she didn’t feel the chemistry. I mean not everyone can go on a first date with someone and be in the middle of the date and find out he has Tourette’s and only finish the date after his second drink, his stop at the diner for a snack and the slowest walk through Union Square. :)
Comment by A
| May 27th, 2008
Have to agree with Jonathan and 1st time reader. I would have felt creeped out by an invitation to go hiking on a first date.
Comment by Lawyer Mama
| May 27th, 2008
Ack. I think I’m too far out of the dating pool. It probably never would have occurred to me when I was dating (and young and stupid) but I could immediately see why she was resisting the hiking first date. Plus, I imagine it’s much easier to bail on someone in a restaurant or bar than on a hiking trail. Unless she’s pretty good at faking her own death. (-;
Comment by One Date Wonder
| May 28th, 2008
You know, I understand on some level why you are angry. But seriously? That was unreasonable. As a single woman very experienced with online dating, I would not under any circumstances go on a first date out in nature with the possibility of no one else around. And if a man got pushy about that? I would take it as a sign that he was up to no good. You are probably completely harmless, but until I knew that for sure? There would be none of that. You shouldn’t have pushed like that.
And as for her statement about seeing what happens, 10 bucks says she meant for a future hiking date. Not sex or making out.
I think you blew a chance at something fun with this misunderstanding. And I wouldn’t push the hiking date like that again. It puts off a creepy vibe that savvy women will immediately avoid.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 28th, 2008
Hey One Date Wonder – I agree that pushing for a hike in the wood with no one around is creepy! I’d never do that. This is a well traveled paved path that this woman was familiar with. Her profile said she loved loved loved nature and hiking. I wasn’t pushy. (It comes across that way in my blog re-telling – some communication between me and her were edited for brevity.)
But this is the big one for me – I’ve had a half dozen first-date hikes or runs on that very trail with other women! This woman was the first one ever who thought it was creepy. Hence my post.
Judging by reader comments like yours, the half dozen women I met were in the minority. (Though, how they showed up as a majority to me, I’ll never know.)
I agree I missed out on a great chance to meet her. But she missed a great chance to meet me by insisting on drinks and dinner.
btw – I get that women don’t want to “be stuck on a trail” with some guy only to find out there’s no chemistry. But what about a guy “stuck at dinner” with a woman where there’s no chemistry, and he’s picking up the bill? That smacks of double standard.
Comment by One Date Wonder
| May 29th, 2008
I didn’t say that. I said coffee or a drink. You assumed the rest, which is on you babe. The only reason that woman suggested dinner is because you railed against a drinks only date. (Maybe grab a bit means only if you hit it off. Otherwise run for the hills. No getting stuck there at all.) And the hike could be saved for a third date, when she knows you a bit better.
Here’s the deal. Chances of ending up alone on the trail? Totally possible. Chances of ending up alone at Starbucks? None at all. You do the math. I think those half a dozen women that agreed to it were foolish and you’re right, most women won’t. I’m not asking you to shell out a million bucks for a fancy dinner. I’m only saying you should consider the flip side of the coin and be a bit more considerate instead of demanding. You pushed far too hard and lost out. There were other activities that are not expensive and would have met both of your needs.
Not a double standard, it’s a safety thing. It has nothing to do with “getting stuck” with you. As a serial online dater myself, I’m just offering you a piece of advice. I don’t care what the trail in question was like, there is no way I would ever agree to that kind of first date. And seriously, even with the conversation edited, you do not come off well in this particular tale. (Think “no means no”. She said she didn’t want to, gave a valid reason, and you persisted. That’s where the creepy vibe is coming from hon.)
I’m sure you’re not a freak or a creepy molester or anything. Don’t misunderstand. It’s just in this particular instance, I think you were wrong and should not try to press the issue like that in the future. Seeing as it’s not just one woman’s advice (based on comments), maybe you can understand that this isn’t an attack but an honest explanation of why that particular tactic failed for you. And a constructive suggestion to not repeat the situation.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 29th, 2008
Thanks, One Date Wonder, for your opinion and perspective. (though I’m not so crazy about being called “hon” by someone I don’t know. Sounds demeaning.)
I’m sure you would never ask a man for an expensive meal on a first date, but it does happen. Witness: http://dadshouseblog.com/2008/03/31/confessions-of-a-serial-online-dater-part-1/
As for the creepiness of this post, all I can say is, Oh well. That woman didn’t find me pushy or creepy (we actually escalated to a phone call and had a nice discussion). Like I said, she caught me at a time when I hated the drudgery of coffee dates and had been screwed over by too many “dinner whores” (as they are known in online dating parlance).
I understand you would never agree to a hiking first date. Other women on here would. Women I’ve met have. I also understand that a woman should decide the terms of a first date, so even if I suggest hiking in the future I won’t push for it if there’s resistence.
Comment by Jaclyn
| May 30th, 2008
She also called you babe, LOL. I actually thought Hiker Girl was turning down the 1st date hike, but flirting with the “lets save that for the 3rd date”. She was polite and stated her position. I would have to agree with the majority and say that I wouldn’t accept a 1st date like that and honestly, you did come off a little pushy on the issue (polite, but kept pressing it). Glad to hear you had a nice phone call with her.
Oh, BTW, I LOVED the “dinner whore” thing. Never heard of that before. I laughed out loud and even though I’m a girl (I’m 27 but I’ll always consider myself a girl), I know EXACTLY the type of women you are referring to. Great blog.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 30th, 2008
Jaclyn – I actually didn’t mind being called “babe”. Go figure! Maybe because my dad used to call my mom “hon”, it struck me. Just goes to show, we each react to things based on our own experiences.
FYI – for anyone and everyone who thought my hiking date idea was creepy, come back Monday (June 2) for a chance to do something about it! Details on my blog then…
Comment by One Date Wonder
| June 1st, 2008
Heh sorry about that. I’m from Baltimore. We call everyone hon. ;)
Pingback by Honey’s Perfect First Date | Honey and Lance | June 6th, 2008
[...] practically all I used to go on) and while I have to agree with Dadshouse that most online daters aren’t terribly original when it comes to first dates, I thought I’d put in my two cents as part of my entry for his [...]
Comment by Hot Alpha Female
| June 8th, 2008
I think that you had a right to feel the way you did. I mean if you do online dating for long enough it all seems the same.
But i also see where this woman was coming from. Coffee and a bite to eat was the safe option. Like as in comfort zone safe. N she was probably being a little bit careful because hey you can meet some freaky people out there and she isn’t going to know if you are freaky of not unless she actually meets you.
I still think that a first date should be something that is different but also low key. So if you wanted to do something to do with nature .. then pick like a walk or something that was still close to the city. I don’t know .. but hopefully you get my point.
with online dating, girls will usually be more cautious. Just make sure that you dont miss out on a great girl, just because she is being a little more cautious.
But i personally think for this one .. your better off with the date =)
Hot Alpha Female
Because within every girl, there lies a Hot Alpha Female
Comment by Hot Alpha Female
| June 8th, 2008
Sorry i meant better off WITHOUT the date *winks*
Comment by Deb
| June 9th, 2008
Ok, SINGLE DAD, here is my unsolicited 2 cents worth after reading your post and all of the related comments. I agree with the majority on here that you should not have pushed the hiking thing. (Yeah, I know, I heard you the first 10 times you said you weren’t pushy but clearly suggesting it, her offering other options with which she felt more comfortable, and you REFUSING to do anything but the hike and in the end not even meeting her because of her REJECTION of your hiking idea could be construed as somewhat “pushy”. And as your readers here have so eloquently pointed out: there are any number of reasons she may not have wanted to do the hike on the first date (and let’s not forget the possiblity that it may have been her time of the month and maybe she bleeds tremendously and is debilitated by cramps and just couldn’t fathom a hiking date at that time, hence, her suggestion of doing it on a later date. You never know what is behind her hesitancy but an astute gentleman would have perceived her hesitancy and done whatever necessary to alleviate it INCLUDING doing a coffee date if he was truly interested in her, dating, dating her, etc.) All are GOOD REASONS listed by your readers as to why she may not have wanted to do the hike. And I’m guessing your reader JONATHAN gets way more dates than you do with his attitude of “let her choose the date – ALWAYS”. (And aside from the concept that if dating is really so financially ruinous for you that a dinner will break your budget, maybe you should just find a FWB and call it a day you also seem hyper-sensitive to criticism, borderline obnoxious in wanting your way regardless of the outcome, and lashing out at being called “Hon” by a reader who was simply trying to soften her disagreement with you by using a term of affection ALL OF WHICH speaks of deep-seated issues with intimacy and openness on your part. Maybe instead of “wasting” your money on “dinner whores” you should spend it on the couch with a good therapist who could get your head in a better place to be a better man who a quality woman would WANT to date regardless of the dating activity or destination. Divorce can wreck havoc with your self-esteem. The implied sense of rejection that comes with a divorce can be debilitating to people in ways they are not even aware of until they take a long hard look at themselves through analysis. I’m really not trying to be judgmental or argumentative or demeaning to you nor do I wish to stoke the fire of your palpable simmering resentments and have you project that onto me. I just thought I would tell you what I SAW in your post and maybe you will take it in the spirit it is intended i.e. truly trying to help you. And maybe, just maybe you won’t rebel in your outrage by blocking me, erasing my comment or attacking ME. I hope not. Because I am truly only trying to help you see what maybe she saw in addition to a hike she didn’t want to take…..
Comment by dadshouse
| June 9th, 2008
Deb – letting your comment through, it’s pretty humorous. But blogs are funny that way.
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| June 9th, 2008
I like a lot of what Deb said. In fact, it made me forget what I was going to say. :)
Comment by dadshouse
| June 9th, 2008
Deb makes some great points and generalizations. Her comment isn’t humorous, but the context is. I find it funny to be psycho-analyzed by someone I don’t know based on a few hundred words I wrote in a post. I realize she’s only reacting to what she read. Actually, that’s a good thing – writers aspire to connect with readers on an emotional level. Still, all that passion and judgement directed at me comes across as funny since we’ve never met. (She doesn’t even know the details or context surrounding this particular story.)
At any rate, I know my blog isn’t me, or anything like me, or even about me. It’s a smattering of stories meant to titillate, educate, and entertain.
Teri – sounds like you have a great attitude about dating!
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| June 9th, 2008
Dads: I think if you really look at Deb’s comment, you will find some very good advice in there. It was my feeling that you were asking for advice in this post. And I’m hoping that you are going to walk away from here with some of the wisdom that the commenters have graced you with.
And, yeah… I’m great at dating! I won’t lie! :)
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| June 9th, 2008
Oh, I remember now! It just seems like dating is being treated like it’s a national sport. It’s just two people meeting up. Very simple. There ought to be no stress about getting “stuck” with them for an entire evening. It should just be a night out. Just like you would want to do with a friend.
Meeting a person from online becomes tricky because people want to meet within their own comfort zones. And yes, that should be respected. If we can’t respect one another’s comfort zones at the get-go, then we really have no business meeting at all. Even for coffee!
Dating really can be fun and enlightening. You can learn about the sexes. You can learn about what you want and what you don’t want. No experience is ever wasted. So what if you spent a hundred bucks on a dinner with a woman you will never see again? You got something out of it. You got to experience some time with a human you didn’t previously know. AND you got a nice dinner! How is that a bad thing?
If a man suggested to me that he wanted to meet for coffee at Starbuck’s, I would most certainly turn him down. If I want to stand at a counter and fix my coffee, I’ll f*&kin’ stay home and do it! I’m looking for experiences. For connections. For the enjoyment you find when a man and a women get together. It’s not always ideal. It doesn’t always turn out that you like each other enough to date again. But it’s a cool experience.
With all of these “what ifs” added to the dating scene, I can see why I see so many newly divorced people lament that they are now BACK in that terrible dating world.
I have enjoyed every second of dating. And I believe that all of the men I’ve dated would say the same about having dated me.
Comment by Deb
| June 9th, 2008
Dads: I appreciate that you let my comments stand. You are right: a good writer connects with his readers emotionally and I was certainly responding to the emotions I perceived in your post and your readers’ corresponding comments. Although it concerns me that you are so willing to dismiss and abandon your blog’s emotional landscape [You wrote:" At any rate, I know my blog isn’t me, or anything like me, or even about me"] because of a few observations I made. Call my comments psychoanalysis, call it perceptive observations, or random guessing or call it anything you like but do not abandon the amazing emotional content you impart into your blog just because I held of it in a harsh light and commented upon same in a sincere effort to try and help you. For it is often those people who hold us at a distance and allow us to truly ourselves that can often pave the way toward self-improvement and allows us to become better people with an enriched emotional landscape. I don’t pretend to think I know you or assume that you put ALL of who you are in your blog for your readers’ daily consumption. But I do believe that what you do share with us is honest and genuine and it was in that spirit that I tried to offer my observations based solely on the information you provided to me in your post. I do hope I did not offend you. That was never my intent. I think you are an amazing and gifted writer with an intriguing emotional landscape as the backdrop of your blog and I would hate to think you are abandoning that or diminishing it in any way simply because I decided to analyze some of what you wrote. That indeed would be a tragic loss to the blog community. Hold fast, my friend. Hold fast.
Oh, and Cathouse Teri: Thanx. I appreciate your kindness and your perception and insight regarding my comments.
Comment by Deb
| June 9th, 2008
truly ourselves is what my post was supposed to say on that line. Sorry. It got deleted somehow.
Comment by dadshouse
| June 9th, 2008
Thanks Deb! Just know that I’m way more evolved than my blog or this particular post reveals. I sometimes feel the need to defend myself, lest people interpret my writing in what seems an unfair light. Don’t worry, I have no intention of shutting off my emotional mojo anytime soon. I try to write honestly, but I don’t tell all, hence the “this blog isn’t me” comment.
I think if I start blogging about the Dalai Lama, Rumi, Ken Wilber, Paramahansa Yogananda, Thomas Moore, Carolyn Myss, Joseph Campbell, Eckhart Tolle, Gary Zukav, Herman Hesse, Thich Nhat Hanh, Krishnamurti, the Bhagavad Gita, The Tao, Reiki, and every other thing I’ve taken in over the years, you all would get bored. I like the grit of real life, even if it makes me look like a pushy creep who would be better off on a therapist’s couch. (And yes, I’ve spent time on that couch. I’m a big fan of therapy, self awareness, evolution of consciousness, spiritual energy.)
I am man, here me meow.
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| June 9th, 2008
Ha! Love it!
Comment by Becky
| January 2nd, 2009
Been sifting through online dating narratives for some levity (new to online dating), and happily came upon yours. But your story is not about first-date hikes.
That’s a separate issue. It seems that you suggested hiking, without mentioning the place. She demures. You press on. At that point, what woman, or man, would agree to it, no matter how safe the destination? And yes, many women would accept your invitation. But how can you logically conclude that she should as well?
I had a similar experience: I mention on my profile that I love backpacking/hiking. So, a recent dude suggests hiking a local trail. I didn’t think much of it (the dude said he was 5′6, so, I figured I could take him on if need be). But when I told friends, they were horrified and instructed me to tell this guy that we can meet for coffee. By their reaction, I figured I might have been a little to incautious, so I call the guy and tell him that I’d rather not hike, and this guy kind of reacts the way you did. He wants to know what the problem is, and I tell him, somewhat jokingly, “How do I know you aren’t a serial killer?” That comment offended him and kept coming up in our coffee-date conversation–”Are you sure you want me to walk you to your car? . . .Well, aside from surfing, I’m also a serial killer,” etc.
I guess it must smart a bit to be considered a murderer first, good guy only after much evidence to the contrary.
So, again, your exchange was not about hiking, really.
Comment by Deb
| August 26th, 2009
I met a man in a park for a first date. Kids and moms pushing strollers everywhere. We walked behind a tree and he reached behind me and unhooked my bra and grabbed me. I smacked him and ran with him laughing behind me. I will never meet a man except in an indoor, well-lite, public place – like a restaurant or coffee shop – for a first date again. If you don’t want to put out a lot of money for a restaurant, tell her so and let her make a suggestion.