A Creepy Writing Vibe
SingleWorkingMommy recently had this to say about my writing in the comment section of my How To Grill Asparagus post:
You’re a great writer (and I’m an editor, so take that for what you will)–I could picture the restaurant, the setting, the mood. I could almost feel your gin-induced fog. Great piece.
Except I get this “cree.pee” vibe from you. Is that weird? Am I just a prude? Please don’t be offended. I could very well be a prude. And maybe it’s because the only other post I’ve ever read was the one where you tried to take your online girlfriend to the woods during a hike and have your way with her. J/k. Except for the cree.pee part. I do get that. K. bai.
To which I’m responding here, because I would love to hear other reader reactions. (The Hiking post she refers to is What’s More Natural Than Nature? – Confessions of a Serial Online Dater, part 3.)
Chime in! Give me the good and bad.
First off, SingleWorkingMommy: thanks for the writing props. With respect to the vibe – as a longtime writing teacher often advised me, if a writer can elicit a strong reaction from a reader, even a reaction that is creepy or makes them cringe, then that writer has connected with that reader on an emotional level. i.e. it’s a good thing. It’s what writers strive for. I’m glad I made you react emotionally.
I assume the part that made you cringe was me ogling the bachelorettes and even projecting onto them the need for a man. I have a wry smile as I write that, because approaching a table full of bachelorettes in front of my kids, or pretending to know what those women are thinking, is the last thing I’d ever do. I know they weren’t all needing a man to join them. They certainly didn’t want a single dad with two kids in tow interrupting their evening. They were reveling in sisterhood, and I was fantasizing my male role in their lives.
But was I that far off the mark? In a piece titled Rockabye Baby…I Want to Kill the Barnes & Noble Lady, a single mom blogger desperately wants the cute man behind the counter to be the one who rings her up, and I don’t think it was for reasons of commerce. For a woman to admit she needs a man reveals vulnerability. Perhaps I played on that a bit. But what if instead I’d written that I need a woman? That I desperately wanted one of the bachelorettes to get up from the table and come talk to me, or even acknowledge my existence with the merest glance? You might question my masculinity. Turning that longing into a projection was a device to protect my aura of manliness (i.e. my ego).
Why on earth would I blog like that? I know the majority of my audience is female, and a lot of women love to read men who write in a metrosexual style, like a woman talking to her best female friend. It worked wonders for the main writer of Sex and the City (a man). It seems to work for bloggers like Manslations. But not all men are like that!
Look at Lance from Honey and Lance, or the author of What Men Think. They sometimes make women cringe in a “cree.pee” way. They are men giving honest glimpses into the male mind.
Want a more literary take? Joyce Carol Oates wrote a novel that was a Pulitzer Prize-finalist: What I Lived For (which I referenced in one of my most-popular posts: Boys are the New Girls, Women are the New Men.) Ms. Oates gets inside the male protagonist’s head, expressing thoughts like “Women are kleenex”, you use them and discard them. Egads! That makes me cringe. But like Oates, I refuse to pander to readership tastes. A strong reader reaction is a good thing.
In short – thank you for your honest feedback! I know some women get the creeps from my stories, and I’m okay with that. I’m happy and grateful to have anyone reading me at all. More than that, I’m thrilled to learn I elicited an emotional reaction.
And on that note, readers wanting to comment on my writing can fire away…
- A New Earth – Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose
- Men Who Read and Cook – Sexy or Unmanly?
- How To Pick Up a Woman in Front of Your Son
- Sorry to Rankle!
- Single Parents Dating Humor – Sexy Funny Stories
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Comment by The Exception
| May 27th, 2008
I am not an editor. In fact, most of my writing these days is for the government, so take this for what it is worth!
I appreciate the honest insight. Your words capture what you think and paint a picture. You might play up one thought or another, but I enjoy reading your pros. Regrettably, I have never had a creepy feeling, but then again, most of my closest friends are men so… I am probably immune!
I do find myself reacting to your posts though. You leave me with food for thought; things to consider. The nature hike of the aforementioned post didn’t phase me while the idea that you were fishing for a very specific looking woman did. We all have ideas of what is attractive and what isn’t, but haven’t you ever found yourself surprised at the chemistry you have with a woman that doesn’t fit your “type?” I always want to ask men that question as they seem to have a much stronger desire to find a physical “type” than do women.
I like your writing; I like what you say and your honesty.
And men, are creepy!! A very good guy friend of mine once told me that every guy I work with has probably stripped me at least once in his mind. I hated hearing this and hope that it really isn’t true. But my friend is a guy’s guy. The whole idea is one I believe and yet, it creeps me out!
Comment by Lance
| May 27th, 2008
Hi, Exception. Had to respond. What’s wrong with stripping an attractive female in your mind?? Sounds arousing to me. Fantasies are a good thing, it means you have a healthy sex drive and a healthy imagination. If us guys didn’t do that we’d be CASTRATED, and no one wants that.
On the flipside, if I was a woman and I worked hard on being attractive, I’d be PISSED if a guy didn’t find me attractive and have fantasies about me. Every woman I’ve ever met has expressed this in one form or another.
I think what creeps most woman out is that most guys don’t understand how to moderate their urges and project them in healthy, confident, and attractive ways. There’s a big difference between expressing attraction in a needy way vs. expressing it subtly via flirting and subcommunications.
Comment by singleworkingmommy
| May 27th, 2008
Eee gads! A whole post dedicated to lil’ ole me and my comment.
I think the creepiness came from a couple of different factors–partly what you touched upon, in addition to the having a drink while taking care of your children (not that we all don’t do it from time to time, but to get foggy could be scary), and some other stuff I won’t get into.
But, I like reading you. And I’ll continue. I think Exception said it all when she said men are creepy. They are. I haven’t been around a lot of them lately to remember just how creepy they can be (and I mean that in the nicest way possible). The men I do choose to hang around are more the “nerds” and “geeks” rather than those typical men that are more upfront about their wants and desires.
Thanks for the boost to my blog (I was starting to wonder where all those comments were coming from…), and unfortunately I’m not a Big 8 editor, but do have a few friends who are. (I’m actually not even a book editor–I edit smaller, more frequent publications.) You never know, though, I might be contacting you “IRL” one day. (Sorry, Lance.)
Comment by mssinglemama
| May 27th, 2008
This is HYSTERICAL.
Men are creepy. LOL. I love men…but yes, some of you are definitely creepy. But on the whole, I just look at men like little boys – because inside of each man there’s a teenage boy scoping women out.
Just a fact of nature.
David, I can see how your writing, or some of the things you write may be perceived as creepy. But, having known you for a while now (virtually) I just think, “it’s just David.”
And same goes for you Single Working Mommy – can totally see where your comment is coming from.
Love you both! And this is a hilarious discussion – loving it.
Comment by The Exception
| May 27th, 2008
Lance, I don’t care if men strip me or check me out (I have the assets so am used to it). What creeps me out is knowing that it is also happening at work. At work I don’t think of myself as sexual – so it is my issue more than theirs. Additionally, I work with lots of retired, older, military men so… perhaps that is the issue?
I definitely like to know that men enjoy my assets (and they aren’t afraid to tell me) but I like it in the right setting rather than at work!
Comment by Kai
| May 27th, 2008
Just adding my two cents to say I don’t find you creepy at all (aside from the “let’s go on a first date hike in the woods where if I don’t like you, I’ll feed you to the bears” post) and I’m ALL for men stripping me…in their mind or otherwise. :-P
Comment by dadshouse
| May 27th, 2008
SingleWorkingMommy – like I said, I’m psyched you voiced your opinion. Thanks!! I know that some things I write make people feel creepy. My writing teacher would occasionally get creeped out, and he’s a man. As for the restaurant, I admit to sometimes having a cocktail or glass of wine with dinner, in front of my kids, and I personally think that’s healthy, not creepy. It’s easy to “fog over” a bit when you have a drink before food. And it’s easy for a man’s mind to be elsewhere when there are women around. I give my kids tons of attention, and try to be present in their lives, but when you’re on vacation and you’re a single parent and you see a table full of vibrant, sexy women, it’s hard not to notice them!
As for my son heely-ing around the restaurant… you had to be there. He’s normally quite well behaved. He did the heely-ing in a part of the room where no one was seated and no servers were walking. He was quite discreet – except for the fact that the bachelorettes loved him.
The day I crack the nut of Big 8 Publishers will be a day I celebrate in a big way. Maybe even with a cocktail! (Any help or nudges with Big 8 friends won’t be forgotten.. )
Exception – your observation about why do people look for a certain “type” is exactly why online dating DOES NOT WORK. Chemistry is a thing to be felt in person, not articulated in checkboxes and online prose. I can attest to have met and dated women who didn’t match my “type”. Chemistry is a wonderful thing…
I totally get that women think men are pigs. And I’m not afraid to let that pigginess ooze out into my writing. And I appreciate that you all read me, despite (or because of?) my writing sometimes being cree.pee.
MsSingleMama – my daughter can attest to the fact that I’m just like her 12-year-old brother, in many ways. I like to tell her “boys will be boys”, which pisses her off because she thinks that gives men/boys justification to do whatever they want. What she doesn’t realize is we are genetically programmed that way (to a certain extent. I exaggerate, of course)
Love the comments!
Comment by mapiprincesa
| May 27th, 2008
I’m a new reader. I’ve read around the site a bit and like what I see. Insight is good; everyone is different and I like to revel in those differences. I congratulate Daddy-o…and all who comment here…on having found their individual voices.
On vibes: I like the honesty that I feel coming through; no matter how I might react to it, I FEEL it is honest here. And, for me, the stronger the reaction the better because, quite frankly, nothing else “reactive” (beside children fighting!) is happening in my life.
At least, in this way, I can still remind myself I am ALIVE!
Be well, Daddy-o.
Comment by Honey
| May 27th, 2008
I think that there’s no real way to change how guys are in their head, which is often creepy. Yet, as Lance says, guys DO have a choice in how they express themselves. Did DM do anything inappropriate at the restaurant? Not in the least. And this is a totally different forum, so he’s not being inappropriate here, either.
Yes, if you allow yourself to obsess over the fact that every guy out there is mentally stripping you (entirely possible) then you will get creeped out. But I think it’s better to save the creeped out feeling for those weirdos who actually approach you and say something horrible. As for the other guys–those who keep their fantasies to themselves or express them in a witty, fun, sexy way–appreciate that they’ve got such a great social filter and don’t worry about it!
Comment by Lulu
| May 27th, 2008
DH- I think you hit the nail on the head with the role/masculinity issues. It is far sexier, and acceptable (whether people say it or not) for a man to be creepy, than needy and that is NOT necessarily a good thing. Men have needs too. Ego does change the lenses we use.
I am a new reader and possibly a bit “creepy” to some audiences myself, but I personally think men AND women (I am using me as the only “inside-her-head” experience) have the capacity to be creepy and honest, and funny and a whole host of other adjectives. The beauty is that we all have a choice in how we internalize or reject what you write. You acknowledged that.
I loved this post, well-written, well-referenced, justifying, but not defensive. Well played Mott. I’m impressed. (which means nothing, really) but…
Comment by SINGLE_M0M
| May 27th, 2008
I agree with many comments here but because of my strong emotional reaction, I’d rather post about my response on my own blog. I can’t wait to see how this discussion continues.
Comment by Single Mom Seeking
| May 27th, 2008
Also cracking up about the men-are-creepy theme here… And I’m completely biased. I’ve met David in person.
I remember reading David’s let-me-take-you-into-the-woods post and thinking, “Jeesh, David is coming across quite macho here.” As he pointed out, it was his manly writing ego coming out. As every writer knows, we have many sides. (Watch out.)
I mean this in the best possible way: when I met David in person, he was very gentle and kind. Dare I say soft? He was simply a great guy, smart, and a good listener.
Granted, we met for lunch… he wasn’t trying to take me into the woods.
Comment by pajama momma
| May 27th, 2008
To be honest, if someone’s too afraid to spell the word “creepy” I’d imagine they get scared at an awful lot of things.
I don’t find men to be creepy. I think they’re wonderful, beautiful creatures and frankly I hope you mom’s that think men are creepy don’t have sons because they will grow up to be men.
Comment by anji
| May 27th, 2008
this is funny… i stop by from time to time to see what you have to say… and just today, as i went to click on the link to your site, i thought to myself this guy is a little bit creepy, isn’t he… and this was right before i read this post.
i read hundreds of blogs, of all varieties. i have no problem hanging out with men whom i am quite aware are enjoying my looks. i get hit on all the time and it never bothers me. i totally know how to hold my own with men – and very much enjoy their company, and vice-versa. i guess it kind of seems like you are using the blog, and your status as a single dad, to get women into bed. that is just the vibe i get sometimes… it is more than that though, and difficult to put into words.
when i read the comment you quoted, i knew EXACTLY what she was talking about… and it actually made me laugh. i read plenty of blogs from other men and i don’t get this feeling from them…
it doesn’t stop me from coming here on occasion, but it is something i’ve noticed. i do enjoy your candor and that you are willing to honestly explore this issue!
Comment by dadshouse
| May 27th, 2008
Anji
that’s too funny about me blogging to get women into bed. I have news – it hasn’t worked! (smile) A buddy of mine suggested the opposite, that my blog will prevent me from ever getting laid again.
The thing I see different about my blog than blogs from a lot of other single men is (and this is a generalization): other men tend to pander to women in a metrosexual way – be it in dissing men, or building consensus, or not admitting to the sexual thoughts all men have. I don’t do that. It’s probably the bane of my writing existence. I hope some day it’s seen as a strength. (Lance and WhatMenThink are two exceptions.)
Comment by Susan
| May 27th, 2008
For what it’s worth, I like your honesty, DH/DM, whether I agree with your take on things or not. Often we spend way too much time trying to write or speak or act in a way that is for other people, not ourselves. It’s interesting, informative and kinda fun to hear what’s going on inside your piggy, creepy head :)
And if anyone wants to see a counterbalance to the cree.pee side of you, they should read your post about the family festival you attended in a month or 2 ago, and your thoughts about missing having a partner, a companion. That struck a chord with me. I was actually just thinking of it sitting by the pool yesterday watching my kids play, but being surrounded by couples. That was a very different kind of feminine energy-inspired post.
So keep at it – all of it!
Comment by pajama momma
| May 27th, 2008
They didn’t say “some men are creepy” they said, “men are creepy.” In fact, so did you. That’s a very different statement than some.
Comment by Jonathon
| May 27th, 2008
I think it’s out of the ordinary to read men — particularly fathers — writing honestly (or even playfully) about sexuality. When I was single I was lucky if I could stop thinking about women for 2 minutes. Just because this is a “daddy blog” doesn’t mean, IMO, that the topics should be off limits.
Comment by Patty
| May 27th, 2008
“Lay off of”?
Good grief, pajama momma, quit picking on someone by pointing out verbatim what they said. That evidently makes you creep.pee.er
Comment by mssinglemama
| May 27th, 2008
Pajama Momma -
Lay off of Single Working Mommy … she’s f—ing awesome, and she definitely loves men. She spelled creepy that way to be funny.
Some men are creeps! That’s a fact. There are creepy men and non-creepy men. And yes, the non-creepy men are beautiful – personally, I can’t get enough of them (a vice, I know).
Your comment shocked me a bit because you’re jumping to some major conclusions – and basically saying that our sons are going to be messed up because we think some men are creepy.
Now you’re the one creeping me out.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 27th, 2008
I agree it’s not fair to say “all men are creepy,” but saying “some men are creepy” is totally fine.
btw – I still don’t get how my asparagus post comes across as being creepy. If the bachelorettes were in high school, it would be creepy of me to check them out. But they were grown women and I’m a single man. (And I’m not some old guy at work, like the guys checking out The Exception. That sounds creepy!)
Still, everyone’s perspective is different and based on their own experiences.
Jonathan – props for admitting men think about women a lot! Yes, this is a “daddy” blog, but it’s also a “single daddy” blog, and dating for single parents is doubly tough, 1) because of the kid issue, and 2) because modern dating is crazy.
Susan – thank you for remembering my kinder, gentler, less creepy side!
Lulu – I think a lot of people would agree with you that “needy” men are not attractive. I love your blog, btw.
Mapi, Honey, everyone else – thanks for the comments and support. Though if you disagree with me or find something I post to be creepy, know that you can express yourself here and I’ll be happy to have stirred something inside you.
Comment by whatmenthink
| May 27th, 2008
Oh my! What a heated discussion.
Well, I think we should define “Creepy”. The guy staring at your chest and rubbing his crotch is definitely creepy. The guy who stares at you and can’t seem to take no for an answer is creepy. From these examples, we can surmise that creepiness is an inability to be subtle about ones intentions. However, Blogs such as Lance’s, DadsHouse, and my own, thrive on the honest conjecture therein. In no way do we hide our intentions from our readership. The truth is as MsSingleMommy put it. “All men are creepy.”
I loved David’s Asparagus Post! As a man, I nodded and chuckled through out the read.
Comment by The Exception
| May 28th, 2008
The things I miss because I am on the East coast – what a discussion!
Generally speaking, men and women think differently. The ability to glimps what a man is thinking is something I love. (Perhaps this is why I like having male friends?) Of course all men aren’t creepy, but we can all say that we have met a few that are. I like Dads House and other men that write, telling things as they are. I might not always agree with what is stated, but I always love that they are writing. (And I don’t always agree with what women say or their vibe either)
Comment by mssinglemama
| May 28th, 2008
Pajama Momma – this is what I said;
“Men are creepy. LOL. I love men… but yes, some of you are definitely creepy.”
Sigh. This is silly now … David, I gotta say – I think the little red hat is creepy. : ) Looks like you’re going to pop out of the woods with a chain saw and slice me into a million pieces.
Comment by pajama momma
| May 28th, 2008
I think the little red hat is creepy. : ) Looks like you’re going to pop out of the woods with a chain saw and slice me into a million pieces..
Ok, I’ll agree with that.
Comment by Lance
| May 28th, 2008
Yeah, the hat has to go. It must have been a cold day in NorCal for that to come out. I’m thinking a white collared shirt, sportcoat, and contact lenses would KILL IT with the ladies.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 28th, 2008
You guys think that little pic with the hat is my avatar, but it’s really a webcam feed. I wear that red hat daily. I blog while listening to the banjo music from Deliverance. I’m watching all of you float down the internet stream… (cue the cackling laugh… and the banjo)
Lance, I like to imagine you look exactly like your avatar. You’re like the blogging Iron Man. You rock.
Comment by debra
| May 28th, 2008
David, you’re just getting attacked from all directions, aren’t you?! Just wanted to send you a little love, and beg you not to give in to the criticism of the red hat! I love that hat!
Comment by whatmenthink
| May 28th, 2008
I have to agree on the red hat. Wear a Giants hat instead!
Comment by pajama momma
| May 28th, 2008
I think he’d look much better in Chargers blue.
Comment by dadshouse
| May 28th, 2008
PJ Momma – now that’s creepy!
Go Raiders! Just win, baby.
Comment by katherine.
| May 30th, 2008
found your site via SVMoms…and glanced through a few of your Serial Online Dater posts….really entertaining.
As a veteran of several tours of duty in the online dating wars your take is pretty much the flip side of what women experience.
Gotta say…you got quite the harem here in the comment section….