Online Dating Expectations
The single mom who dreamed about me, found my blog, and has been chatting with me ever since admits that she is nervous about meeting me in real life. (She’ll be in the Bay Area next week.) She’s never done the online dating thing. She doesn’t know what to expect.
That makes her the opposite of me.
In eight years of divorce, I’ve done way too much dating online. I’ve tried all the major sites: match.com, chemistry.com, yahoo personals, eHarmony, salon, nerve, true, kiss, plentyoffish, craigslist. I know what it’s like.
What to expect from online dating:
- Dating profiles are just a glimpse of a person – like any good sales pitch, an online dating profile highlights the best parts of a person. After you meet, be prepared for some warts to show.
- Dating profiles aren’t necessarily true – people shade the truth about their age, height, weight, baggage, happiness, sometimes even their marital status. People tend to want to present themselves in a more favorable light. See bullet point one.
- Your ideal partner can’t be described by checkboxes and paragraphs of prose – who can say what makes two people click? Chemistry is something felt in person. When things are right, your whole self knows. And this only comes out when you meet in person.
Remember – 75% of the tens of millions of people who date online are not satisfied with the process. And Time magazine named eHarmony one of the Five Worst Websites of 2007 for its “power to cause utter despair.”
Internet dating is merely a tool to meet people – nothing more, nothing less. Taken that way, it can be quite useful.
Tips for a better experience dating online:
- Keep expectations low – don’t put the other person on a pedestal, or imagine them as your dream ideal (even if you already met in a dream.) They are just another person. You may or may not click.
- Don’t visualize a future together – this creates false and often unrealistic hopes. On the first date, you’re meeting for coffee, not getting married.
- Try to be accepting and non-judgmental – even if you don’t end up dating, this other person might show you another side of life, or help you learn something new about yourself.
My dreaming woman and I didn’t meet through a traditional online dating site, we met through my blog. I like her pics, we’ve clicked on the phone and through instant messaging. But I’m determined to keep things grounded.
When we meet in person, it will be just that – two strangers saying hello, flirting and chatting and getting to know each other, wondering where it might lead. I harbor no illusions that I’m her ideal man or that she’s perfect for me. I’m simply hoping for the best, cultivating an attitude of acceptance, enjoyment, and enthusiasm for whatever may come.
And if we don’t hit it off in person, maybe we’ll head back to dreamland for some steamy dreamy hot rebound fun.
- Be Wary of Dating Expert Advice Sites
- When Online Dating Doesn’t Work, Use Your DNA
- An Online Date Stood Me Up
- Relationship Dating 101: First Meeting
- Romantic Compatibility – On Paper
- An Online Dating Success Story
- Online Dating Sucks
- Hot, Sexy, Single – Law of Attraction
- Great Books for Relationship and Divorce Advice
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Comment by mama llama
| September 29th, 2008
That’s a good reminder for all of us, not only with online dating but in any other type of arrangement. For some reason, I thought you were meeting Her this weekend–so I’m disappointed!
Have a wonderful Monday, Dads. Be well.
mama llama’s last blog post..another full circle
Comment by Single Mom in New England
| September 29th, 2008
You are incorrigible: your dreams always end up with sex! :) Okay, not that that’s a bad thing…
Comment by debra
| September 29th, 2008
I saw Burn After Reading, (the new Clooney, Malkovich, McDormand, Pitt) movie this weekend. Frances McDormand’s character is a 40’s something single woman doing the online dating thing (she’s nearly as good in this role as she was in Fargo). The subtle statements the movie made about online dating made me squirm a little in my seat, almost embarassed that I had met my dream guy online. It portrays a woman cranking through online profiles, wading through all the losers, meeting man after man (and sleeping with them all, despite the total lack of interest or chemistry), discovering over and over that they are married. A sad commentary on online dating, though the movie was hysterical.
I agree, online dating is a numbers game, largely a hassle, and full of flakes and people misrepresenting themselves, but it can end up presenting the opportunity to meet people you might not otherwise cross paths with. I think it just takes a little guarded optimism. That said, I am rejoicing over deleting my online profiles and saying goodbye to online dating!
Comment by Katherine (SOLO dot MOM)
| September 29th, 2008
I needed this today. I have quite a bit of experience with this as well, so deep down I already do know these things…. but it is good to be reminded, when you let your fantasies and hopes wander.
And yes I can see why EHarmony is such a despairing site… setting up false expectations. I have tried it on 3 different time periods.
After trying several… too many to even name here, I continue to be a glutton for punishment, going back for more… but meeting people this way is better than not meeting any new potential dates at all! :)
Katherine (SOLO dot MOM)’s last blog post..No Fear in Finance
Comment by The Exception
| September 29th, 2008
Good points For some, it works. I met my cousin on Friday night who met his wife via Match. I know a few people who have met via chat rooms (ages ago) and blogs.
You never know when that right person at the right time is going to come along.
After weeks of chatting, phone conversations, and fantasies… I would imagine that it is a tad different than the online dating or even meeting through friends experience. You have a feel (figuratively of course) for one another. The anticipation and excitement are there – it has to be or you wouldn’t have made so much time for one another.
One never knows what will happen.
The Exception’s last blog post..Is it my Imagination
Comment by Edgar
| September 29th, 2008
I agree with you, David, that finding dates through online means is merely another way to meet people, in many ways no different from encounters at Starbuck’s, in Mexican restaurants or even passing notes to sexy teachers. I suppose the expectation of dating sites is that the people you meet there are available and interested in pursuing a relationship, although that is probably not always true. Or perhaps the nature of a relationship that someone there wants is not exactly what you have in mind. Ah, the complexities of these creatures called humans. As the Four Agreements notes, it’s best to avoid having expectations (or to avoid making assumptions, to be more precise). That way, you can always be delighted and grateful when unexpected cuddling after hot rebound sex comes your way. I do think there is no substitute for meeting someone in person, so you can get a more complete picture.
I’ve found some very dear (now former) lovers via online means, as well as a recent relationship that was one of the most profound learning experiences of my life. I avoided EHarmony like the plague, because I do my best not to support enterprises run by right-wing religious types. Then again, match.com is based in Texas, so it does have its own foibles. Thank goodness nothing in life is perfect – we would undoubtedly get bored if it were.
Comment by T
| September 29th, 2008
What a great post!! I haven’t done much of this but now that you mention it… I think my expectations were high. And of course, expectations always lead to disappointment. I like that DH. Thanks for the new perspective.
Its nice to hear you keeping your wits about you and dreamer girl. Still…. you never know, right? :)
T’s last blog post..Virginity: A Girl and a Mom’s perspective
Comment by Vinomom
| September 29th, 2008
Online dating is quite the adventure. I met my current Boyfriend of 4 1/2 years on match.com. Luckily, he sought me out-because from his profile, I never would have emailed him. It had only a few sentences that really said nothing about him and the picture wasn’t great. His email to me, though, was sweet, funny, and most importantly, literate. I can’t tell you how many emails I received with no punctuation, and mispelled words. An immediate turn off for me.
Friends of ours met and are now married from match.com as well. I haven’t met anyone who’s done eharmony with success.
I think Katherine make a good point. Why not continue to try the online dating experience? It’s the lesser evil of no dates at all!
Vinomom’s last blog post..Back in the day..memories of a Tramp
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 29th, 2008
I did a lot of online dating before I met my current BF. I did find men for 2 LT relationships (although I met my current BF off-line).
I used Match.com because I prefer to screen and search for people myself–and Harmony is too patriarchal not to mention homophobic and marriage-focused for this overeducated liberal.
I learned a few things:
1) Any man reluctant to give specific details about his life or who was not eager to schedule a meeting in person is probably married. And obviously anyone too chicken to post or send a picture. I used this as my screen and didn’t ever get burned by a married man.
2) Men who say in their profile that they “don’t smoke”, but then ask in follow-up if I eveyr smoke “anything else” are potheads. The same goes for 100 % of men I corresponded with who described themselves as “hippies”. By “potheads” I mean someone with a serious problem–ie a guy who has a kilo in his freezer but doesn’t have a car.
3) Men who say they “have their own company”, or “do consulting” are actually unemployed.
4) Men who say they read a lot don’t. Even if they list the titles of the books they read.
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 29th, 2008
You are so right. It’s a way to meet people. Nothing more, nothing less. And your tips are those that should be applied, regardless of how you are meeting your dates.
I have several years of experience in meeting people from online. Both men and women. I only ventured specifically into meeting people via an online dating site during one brief period. And even in that period, I only met up with three men. (The last of which is my current boyfriend of 3+ years.) I didn’t find that experience to be any different than the experience of having met men those other ways, except that those other ways of casual online meeting situations did not have the pressing element of “finding someone.” So that changed the dynamics a little.
Still, I was always just meeting people for the fun of it. Because I like meeting people. And I like new experiences. I was never disappointed. Not one single time. I was a few times a little disappointed in that I would meet men who desired to have a relationship with me (four of them proposed) but it would always turn out to be an unsuitable match. Reinforcing my resolve NOT to have a relationship.
And sometimes funny stuff would happen. Like the time I met a guy and he walked me to my car, leaning in to kiss me. Then proceeding to lick almost the entirety of the bottom half of my face. And he wasn’t kidding. I have no idea how a man gets to be in his forties without having someone say, “Hey! Knock that the f*%k off!” :)
People would see me having fun meeting people and doing a little traveling, so they would ask me if I recommended online dating for their cousin or their brother or their son, who seems to have trouble meeting women. I would say ~ Hell no! Online dating is not for wimps! You have got to have a great deal of self-confidence, and even then you are nervous to some degree, every time, to meet a new person. There is always the potential for rejection and you are actually setting yourself up for that very thing. It is not a place to lay the groundwork for establishing a social life. I would think it would be destructive to the shy types.
Which brings me to conclude my dissertation with this ~
Those who would coach these shy types to become pick-up artists. I do not find this to be healthy or realistic training. There. I said it.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 29th, 2008
Cathouse—his LICKED you? OMG, did you laugh or hit him?
I didn’t have too much trouble screening men I met online simply by emailing with them. If you chat at length and frequently it is easy to rule out the men 1) who are not really adequately socialized (ie misfits–even their emails are boring/weird!), 2) who are pathologically desperate (they say “I haven’t dated since my divorce 10 years ago, OMG I can’t believe you contacted me!” And then right away they ask, “are you interested in marriage/sex?”, 3) who are hiding significant physical disabilities (they usually tell you as you are chatting by email, as in “would it bother you if I had to use a wheelchair?” Sorry, I’m not willing to take that on!), and those 4) who just want a wife/slave (they only email information about themselves, especially how much money they make etc etc, and when I say I’m a “feminist” they don’t contact me again!)
The men from this site that I ended up dating more long term (2) were actually men I sought out myself using my own search terms, usually searching for interests that were similar to mine. One man was a professor quite a bit older than me, and the other man was my age—an IT guy by day and rock musician by night. And yes, they both lied on their original profiles.
Every single man I met online lied about his age (cutting 10 years at least), and physical condition (if they describe themselves as having an “athletic build” they are actually 60 lb overweight and sometimes watch golf on TV!). And most lied about their education and income also.
Despite running into the occasional creep, I enjoyed online dating. There’s more men than women on these sites, and most of the many men I emailed with were at least polite and grateful for the attention.
I did find that match.com’s computer interface screwed up a couple times and revealed by “real” email address when I would have preferred not to do that yet. My real email header showed up on match’s email even though that’s not supposed to happen. Has anyone else had this happen?
Comment by dadshouse
| September 29th, 2008
I’m not sure I agree that online dating is intrinsically better than not dating at all. If you’re like the Frances McDormand character Debra described, then it might be best to stop the online madness, take some time to get to know yourself, pursue your passions, put yourself into position to meet people the old-fashioned way – by meeting in real life.
I’ve personally met way more girlfriends through other friends – at BBQs, picnics, dinner parties, block parties, etc. – than online. I.e., by being social.
That said – if you take online dating with the right grain of salt, and keep things in perspective, it CAN be a lot more fun meeting someone new for drinks than sitting at home all by yourself. Just don’t let online dating rule your social life!
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 29th, 2008
I’ve also availed myself in the recent past of two pricey “personal” dating services.
Like online sites, the dating services are similarly a great way to meet people. However, I did not meet any more “winners” with the dating services than I did online. Actually fewer. I dated one guy for a couple months, but that was the most successful relationship from using these 2 services.
They bill themselves as taking great pains to get a “fit” in personality, etc. But I think it is a major problem that they won’t show you pictures–you basically have to go on a date to see what the person looks like. Also, they won’t tell you the person’s age, and both services pressured me to accept dates within a 20 year window. Not that I only date men who look like Adonis and are exactly my age. But I’m not interested in dating a man >10 years younger or older than me. Also I think a picture, especially the eyes, can tell you a lot about the person’s intelligence, humor, and sincerity and thus the possibility of chemistry.
Another problem was that both dating services totally ignored my requests regarding what I was looking for with respect to the man’s race and where he worked. It’s very problematic for me to date anyone who works at my company. I don’t want to date someone outside of my culture because I have learned the hard way (dating, marriage) that such relationships are very very unlikely to work out, at least if they involve me. The view of women in many of these cultures makes it a very bad fit.
I think the lack of email communication before deciding to go on a date is also a drawback of the personal dating services.
So I would not recommend the personal dating services–you really don’t get more for your money, IMO (& it’s a LOT of money). Unless you want lots of great stories! (I have a lot of very funny stories from dates set up by these services….!)
Does anyone else have experiences with personal dating services? Did they work for you?
Comment by Hip_M0M
| September 29th, 2008
So, I’ve now went on my first second date with the first guy that peaked my interest on eHarmony. I’ve written about my experiences but appreciate your insight.
As with any first official meeting, it’s only natural to be nervous but I’m sure your date or first meeting (whatever you call it) will be fine.
I do expect details, though! ; )
Hip_M0M’s last blog post..Newly Designed Website
Comment by Lance
| September 29th, 2008
I think your tip #2 is what trips many daters up, especially women (I’ve definitely fallen prey to it); don’t envision a future together. I’ve met plenty of girls who disqualified decent guys because they couldn’t see themselves getting married and having children with the dude, which is majorly putting the cart before the horse. I met a girl recently who doesn’t date AT ALL unless the guy has serious marriage and family potential, which really makes her unattractive.
Lance’s last blog post..Calling All Bloggers! Let’s Talk Virgins!
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 29th, 2008
MC ~ I totally laughed!
I have never used a personal dating service. I did have a company call me, under the guise of doing a free introductory questionnaire over the phone. I wasn’t doing anything at the moment, so I was willing to answer their questions. Then they said something about paying money and they’d hook me up with someone. I laughed out loud. I said, “Are you kidding? I am a woman! I don’t pay to find dates!”
I agree with Lance in that it’s silly to try to do this “cart” dating. But in the end, I chose to refuse to date any men who had marriage on their minds. I mean ever. I mean they would have to be positive that they never, ever wanted to marry. Then I would go out with them. I found that if I dated the marriage-minded, even if they insisted that it was a far away future goal, they would (for some f*$king ungodly reason) decide that they wanted to marry me. This was not a good thing. ;)
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by pajama momma
| September 29th, 2008
GO CHARGERS! GO CHARGERS! GO CHARGERS!
I’m sorry, was this post about something else?
Comment by Cheery-Wise
| September 29th, 2008
Great words of wisdom there, Dads.
I still feel like I’m new at this. But socializing isn’t a problem, now that my kids are not so very young. I mix it up all the time, doing things I like to do: from hiking with a meetup group, to joining a new book club, to taking a class, to volunteering at a concert venue, to being open to blind dates (well, nearly blind) that you find on dating sites… I’ve met some nice people in all sorts of ways.
I totally agree with one of Vinomom’s comments:
Good grammar is such a turn-on! :)
Comment by dadshouse
| September 29th, 2008
Sorry, PJ Momma, I can’t read your comment. I’m whithering away in a Black Hole, and it’s really dark in here…
Cheery-wise – love your approach! A mix of healthy activities that you are passionate about is a great way to go.
Lance and Teri – gotta agree, putting the cart before the horse is a horrible start.
Hip Mom – good for you! I read that first post. Hope it keeps unfolding in a way you like.
Mad Cartoonist – I plead the fifth!
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 29th, 2008
Cathouse, that’s funny!
I also had a problem with 3 men who wanted to marry me quite early in our dating (< 1 year! in one case < 2 months!)…..at a stage when I was recently divorced and very upfront about NOT being interested in marriage until at least 5+ years in the future, if at all.
I think some men just can’t believe that a women really doesn’t want to get married! I found it annoying and distressing, because I just wanted to relax and enjoy the relationship developing instead of being pressured to decide about its future. Also I found it annoying that they would think I would decide something so important to my kids as well as myself in so short a time.
And Dadshouse….hmm…! Possibly you are also a victim of the dating-industrial complex? C’mon, spill the details!
In return I’ll tell about how “they: set me up with a “public servant” who turned out to be a policeman…and not just any policeman, but my city’s Chief of Police (!) If you knew me, you’d know how bizarre it would be for anyone to think we’d have anything in common (let’s just say I’m kind of liberal and a former hippie). Plus he literally sat in the restaurant with his back to the wall, with his eyes on the door and one hand on his piece, all during our 1st date. And during our 2nd (& last!) date. And he kept pointing out to me people who he said recognized him. uh………
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 29th, 2008
Sexy! Kept his hand on his piece!
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Lance
| September 29th, 2008
@Cathouse: What’s wrong with coaching men who have little social skill and emotional intelligence to get better in those areas? You call it pickup, I call it dating coaching. They’ve got to learn these skills somehow or risk spending 2-3 sexless years between mediocre girlfriends. That’s no way to live.
Lance’s last blog post..Calling All Bloggers! Let’s Talk Virgins!
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 30th, 2008
Yeah, that was his word for it, “piece”! But it wasn’t sexy because all the while I was thinking, “I’m sitting here with a freakin’ right-wing policeman gun nut, OMG, what am I doing here!?” And I was trying hard to edit my usual conversational style so I wouldn’t say something obnoxiously anarchist, pro-drug, or anti-gun, etc. (It would have been a joke, obviously (I’m actually a productive member of society and all), but what if he didn’t get it?)
On the plus side, he was (mmmm!) definitely in excellent physical shape, rock-hard abs and etc. I might have to consider dating another policeman sometime!
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
Lance: I agree, it’s a noble thing to try to coach the little helpless ones to be confident and strong. And I am all for every effort being made to do this. Unfortunately, from what I see in the “coaching” world you describe, it’s almost like the blind leading the blind. They are learning the wrong things. Because the men teaching them are not old enough to really be teaching them something balanced and real. Dating is a place where you learn about people. Where you learn about yourself and your place in a world which includes the opposite sex. I am very disturbed when dating is promoted to be some way to find someone. To find “the one.” Or when it is promoted as a way to earn your prowess. So the help that these are receiving is, in my opinion, not helpful. In the long run (and we won’t really know what the long run includes for another twenty years, will we?) ~ I think they will find that they were led astray on a number of levels.
Of course, this is not to say that it’s all going to be bad advice. You can learn a good thing in the worst of places. And of course, this is just my opinion and I’m speaking from a large view.
I feel our society has lost the need for learning from our elders. And that is where the real trouble lies. Young men need to be learning from older men. And I don’t mean older men who are five to ten years older. I also don’t mean older men who are in the same damn boat you are in. Those are comrades, but not teachers.
Have you seen “The Tao of Steve?”
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
MC: I’ve dated (and I use the term “dated” loosely) many policemen. And they are always a ton of fun. But I would NOT recommend marrying one.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by dadshouse
| September 30th, 2008
Teri – I actually think Lance and his brethren are doing a great service, once you get past the whole “Mystery Method” or “The Game” marketing hype that shrouds it all.
Divorced single parents are re-entering the dating scene after a sometimes long absence. Maybe they met their first spouse at work or school, and now that they’re older and have married friends and colleagues, those places aren’t an option. At some point, you have to get out there and approach the opposite sex, flirt with them, get them interested.
Do I follow Lance’s guidelines when I’m in the moment? Not at all. But after approaching a woman, when I look back on the experience to see what went well, what went wrong, how I might have done things differently – at that point, I love referring to Lance’s wisdom. It often turns out that I followed his techniques without thinking about them. Articulating the techniques I used helps me be more self aware.
Beyond that, Lance is still doing a good thing. From what I’ve heard from some of my female friends, there are men out there who could use some help in the approach and/or flirting department!
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
I’m glad to know we’re all friends! ;)
Lemme ’splain this again. I am not entirely sure that the long term effects are positive. They may show symptoms of being more confident and direct, but there may be underlying side-effects. In other words, some basic understanding of who women are and why we want them, etc., may be being neglected. They are not necessarily being given instruction on how to grow as a man, but really just how to pick up chicks. And many times, although outwardly effective, the wrong way.
Again, have you seen “The Tao of Steve?”
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
Dads ~ I am not at all saying that there are not men out there who could use some help. Neither am I saying that what Lance is doing is all bad. But again, there are some foundational things being neglected and even twisted in the dating coach world. And quite honestly, I am not specifically trying to point at Lance in regards to this danger, as I know very little about the extent of his techniques.
I am simply promoting great care when giving advice to the impressionable and desperate. We are responsible for what we say.
Still, when the buck stops, we are all responsible for what we choose to digest. So anyone who gets f^#ked up as a result of the advice they swallow has no one to blame but themselves.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by dadshouse
| September 30th, 2008
Teri – I disagree. Lance is constantly reminding men they need to add value, whether that’s to the conversation, to a woman’s life, whatever. It’s not just about “picking up chicks.”
And isn’t that what a lot of women are looking for? A man who adds value to their lives? I see so many women say or write that they want a man who makes them laugh, or who they can learn from, or who is financially strong and can provide. Aren’t all those things adding value?
btw – I’ve read Women Who Run With The Wolves, and I still don’t understand you wonderful female creatures.
Comment by dadshouse
| September 30th, 2008
Teri – don’t worry, we’re all friends. I don’t feel you’re attacking Lance. But I do wonder when you say “anyone who gets f*#ked up as a result of the advice they swallow has no one to blame but themselves” – how exactly are they getting f*&ked up by being more confident and direct when approaching women?
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 30th, 2008
Cathouse, why wouldn’t you marry a policeman?
They’re reportedly upstanding and employed. And fit (!) Also I liked the fact that he was very unlikely to be a drug addict. I am so over dating pot smokers!! Illegal activity and relationships with sketchy pushers + being around my children = I just won’t go there. Anymore (hindsight, yeah, I know).
Comment by Mad Cartoonist
| September 30th, 2008
I think Lance’s idea about a dating coach is something more men should consider.
While metrosexual = ugh, there’s too many men who are sadly clueless about appropriate dress & grooming. Some men similarly have no idea how to make social conversation. And it reflects very badly on them.
As a woman, I would never go on a date dressed in “whatever”. It’s sensible to put your best foot forward, and taking some care with your appearance reflects positively on your self-esteem. Even though I buy most of my clothes at Target, I try to wear something that fits and is flattering in color and style, and is also appropriate for the restaurant or whatever event we’re at.
I hate it when a man (especially a blind date) clearly hasn’t bothered to change out of his greasy work jeans and old plaid shirt before meeting me. I find it insulting and/or I’m thinking that he’s terminally depressed and I shouldn’t touch that.
And if he just doesn’t know what’s appropriate to wear to a date at a moderately upscale restaurant it speaks volumes about his social cluelessness. Yeah, he might be a “nice” guy. But why would I want to hang out with someone who is incapable of appropriate social interactions?
And if his clothes smell bad (like my policeman, oh well) that is really the kiss of death.
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
MC: I said I wouldn’t recommend marrying a policeman because I was married to one! ;)
Dads ~ You are welcome to disagree, of course. But again, I am not specifically speaking of Lance’s world, and would prefer the conversation not be directly about his specific techniques. Especially since, as I said, I am not fully aware of the extent of them.
I’m sure it’s always a good thing to try to teach men how to dress and not smell. But really, I must say I’ve not come across any that needed that sorta learnin. Maybe I’ve just been swimming in a different dating pool. On the other hand, I’ve been swimming in so many, it would be hard to prove that I was not very well immersed in a great deal of variety.
Let’s just say that I definitely look for men who are grown up. This having nothing to do with their age. I like men who are able to figure things out. Work things out. Make themselves a way in the world. If you were the most capable man on earth and then met me and said, “Oh yeah! I learned it all from a pick up artist site that changed my life!” I would definitely lose interest in you.
The cool thing about this is that hey… you probably don’t want me anyway. :)
All of this blah blah blah makes my head hurt. Fuuuuuuck! It’s not really this complicated, is it?????
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Lance
| September 30th, 2008
@Cathouse: There are plenty of unsavory dating coaches/PUA’s out there, and generally these guys are on the young side. I would avoid them, and I wouldn’t recommend clients go to them either. It’s like any other industry, there are some good people and some abusers. It’s your job as a consumer to do your research and suss out who the good ones are. I can assure you, there are plenty of dating coaches who are above board and truly positive.
As for me, I’m NOT a dating coach, and I don’t sell any type of service. I don’t even really consider myself a pickup artist, but I do identify with the group and I’ve learned a lot from that niche, so I feel compelled to defend them.
Lance’s last blog post..Calling All Bloggers! Let’s Talk Virgins!
Comment by Laura
| September 30th, 2008
Oh this is such a good reminder for people. I am on Nerve Personals (lots of strange guys on that one, really strange guys) and eHarmony.
I have only had two dates via online since I joined 3 weeks ago. I have also joined meetup.com which has lots of fun activities and even tried (Gasp) Speed Dating. Two hours of my life I will never get back.
The first time I tried online dating a few years ago (eHarmony and Match), I had many dates but nothing substantial. Quantity over quality. This go around I am just going into it with low expectations and it is a lot less stressful. You know, expect the worse but hope for the best. Sad, but this way you are not caught up in the process and make something out of nothing.
I find it sad that people have to lie on the profiles. I figure, why lie? Eventually you will be found out and what a bad way to start things off. I think men lie about their height and women about their age. I do not get the lying about the age thing. Silly. As for the height, hello, you cannot hide that!
If something comes out of the online dating process, great, if not, it was good practice and always something to laugh about later.
Good luck on your date! I hope turns out better than your expectations. If not, you have something else to blog about.
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| September 30th, 2008
Lance ~ Yes, I know that about you. And I appreciate your taking time to clarify again. Your defense is well noted and respected.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by SDMktg
| September 30th, 2008
I also tried match and a few other sites once I was ready to date again, which took a while. Match was a bust and I got stood up more times than I thought possible with people just vanishing…not calling or emailing back or anything. I guess some call that “poofing”. I found it quite rude. The profiles were amusing though. A lot of people aren’t very realistic about what they are looking for but what really cracks me up is the default height settings are 3′1″ and 8′11″. It’s nice to know the tallest man who ever lived could get a date on Match. It’s very hard to judge personality by reading a profile. A lot of people that I’ve met in real life I might not have gone out with just from reading their dating profile. For example, you can’t hear a laugh online. Or see if someone laughs or rolls their eyes at your jokes.
I met my girlfriend through chemistry.com and the matches seemed a bit better through that site but it still took actually meeting people face to face to determine if there was any compatibility. Online dating without actually meeting is a huge waste of time. It’s also depressing to be a marketing person and have people not respond positively to your profile, emails, etc until you realize that just means it’s not the right fit. Ironically I became good friends with a woman that had previously rejected me on match because I had kids when we met almost a year later in real life just by coincidence. We instantly hit it off in real life and on match apparently there had been no attraction on her part.
My one and only hope for any date was just to have a nice evening. If we wanted to see each other again great and if not, that was ok too. At least I would have gotten out of the house, had decent conversation, and maybe a few laughs.
SDMktg’s last blog post..NFL Week 3 Tailgating Menu – Tri Tip Sandwiches with Grilled Onions and Peppers
Comment by The Exception
| October 1st, 2008
Women seek enrichment in life but I am not sure that a man can provide this until he knows himself and knows what he has to offer. I think women also want to enrich the lives of others too. It isn’t a one way street. If we are teaching men to be players or pick-up artists (and not saying that this is happening here or with Lance or anything) then they are not learning about themselves and what they have to share/offer.
Each sex has to learn to have reasonable expectations of the other (if any) which is not something that a dating coach can do… is it? Dating sits are also interesting as they state, upfront, that the person is seeking marriage etc. If a person’s intent is marriage, then how can any date or meeting not carry with it an “interview” or “potential” for a future given the intent of the quest?
The Exception’s last blog post..Petits Mort
Comment by dadshouse
| October 1st, 2008
Laura – sounds like your experience with online dating is similar to mine.
SDMktg – too funny! The tallest man in the world can get a date at match. I like your insights about not being able to hear a laugh online. We pick up so much in person that gets lost on the internet.
The Exception – you hit the nail on the head here. We all, men and women, need to know ourselves and love ourselves first. When we’re happy with who we are, we have so much more to offer a relationship. Can a dating coach teach people what to expect from the other sex? I don’t see why not. We sort of do that for each other here in the blogosphere.
Comment by Laura
| October 1st, 2008
David-Yes I think we do have similar online experiences. I guess I just like to torture myself.
I am sure the fact that you have kids makes it more challenging. I enjoy your blog as well as Kat’s because it gives me a lot of insight when dating fathers and where the ex-wives are coming from. Very insightful.
Exception-I am almost 5′9′ and have no problem dating a man an inch shorter than me…as long as they are HONEST. A few years ago I went on a date with a man who said he was 5′8” and must have been 5′5″. Like I was not going to figure that one out. Nice guy, but no connection (and it had nothing to do with his height). But he should have been truthful. I am on my profile (yes rare, but the truth comes out eventually).
In general, I look at the photo and if they look pleasant I check out their profile to see if they may be someone that could be interesting and where I could have a connection by meeting them face-to-face. So far, I have met some nice men. You just never know.
Either way, it has been an interesting journey.
Comment by Laura
| October 1st, 2008
Oops I guess the height thing went to SDMktg not Exception! Sorry!
Comment by SDMktg
| October 1st, 2008
It’s not just that the tallest man in the world can get a date…he’s only 8′5″. 8′11″ is the exact height of the tallest man who ever lived. I guess Match doesn’t want to leave anyone out. The shortest living man at 2′6″ however is out of luck. Match cuts off at 3′1″.
I’m just barely under 6′ tall and I have no problem with women my height. If it wasn’t for heels I’d even be ok with 6′1″. My girlfriend is shorter than me though.
It would be cool if you could hear voices online but then you’d be forced to make a cheesy recording and I don’t know anyone that likes to see themselves in video.
SDMktg’s last blog post..NFL Week 3 Tailgating Menu – Tri Tip Sandwiches with Grilled Onions and Peppers
Comment by Exception
| October 1st, 2008
I think that the blogs go a distance in helping men and women understand expectations – just as friendships between the sexes do. I believe that the expectations that get us in trouble are often based in our past and are more about each as individuals and in relation to another over a general expectation.
In that case, each has to be completely open and honest with themselves and then with a potential whatever.
In this light, I would tend to think that each person who desires marriage goes into a “meeting” with the idea that there is a potential future here – and I don’t mean as a friend. The expectation might not be that marriage or sex is going to happen tomorrow, but if marriage is the intent/goal, then the interview begins with that first face-to-face if not before.
Granted – most of this is based on what I have heard from female friends in their 30’s. Perhaps men are different? perhaps it is singular in nature? And perhaps we can “meet” a person without considering them as a potential mate despite our ultimate objective. It seems that anyone is potential until she/he is placed in their proper bucket! ;)
As Teri noted above – she ensured over an dover again that the men she found were NOT interested in marriage because she wasn’t. It is that compatibility of which you wrote earlier. Would you (general you here) consider putting a great deal into someone that wasn’t potential marriage material if she wasn’t “there” with you? Or if you want to get married, would you put all the work and invest the time (general you again) in fostering a relationship with a person who didn’t – regardless of how attracted the individuals were to one another?
Exception’s last blog post..Petits Mort
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| October 2nd, 2008
TE ~ You and your buckets! ;)
There is one important aspect to the online dating scene that I would like to comment on here. I have found that when you “meet” someone and begin forming attachments, before having really met, it takes on an ethereal quality. As soon as you meet, that etherealness disappears. Instantly. If you have developed your “relationship” at length, this is a more crucial moment than if you meet very soon after making initial contact.
Now, whether the coupling is able to evolve past this step very much depends on how much your heart and mind have been depending on that etherial quality. And we very rarely know that about ourselves until we are in the actual situation. We definitaly don’t know that level about someone else.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by The Exception
| October 2nd, 2008
Teri – I like my buckets!! Especially the blue plastic kind!! (Needless to say, I don’t get them but I am definitely starting to see how often they are used!)
I developed a relationship via e-mail and telephone a long time back. Everything was there, the friendship and intimacy developed, and when it came to meeting, I was scared to death that I would not live up to the expectations this man had – how could the real me compete with the me of his imagination (and no pictures don’t keep that from happening). From the other side, talking to someone and getting to know them, we see the good, the fun, the energy and investment. We see all the wonderful things we want to see without the physical distractions (good and bad). It is easy to fall into expectations.
We met and it was fine. Fortunately, we were friends above and beyond everything else, neither of us were looking for commitment and marriage, and each was very willing to accept the other and the situation at that moment realizing that neither were seeking potential mates. It is difficult to remove expectation from any situation – because we want to marry, we want it to work, we want to connect, we want whatever it is we want – we want to stop looking.
The Exception’s last blog post..Hunters and Gatherers (Caution: Generalities in Use)
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| October 2nd, 2008
Exactly, my dear! When you tread carefully, you tend to not put as much weight on the ethereal portion of the connection. So it can disappear with virtually no ripples.
However, sometimes people THINK they aren’t expecting anything, but they are hoarding some secret desires. These are so secret that they often don’t even know they are there!
This is definitely a way to find out the reality of your heart’s true secrets.
Cathouse Teri’s last blog post..Am I My Brother’s Keeper?
Comment by Christina
| June 15th, 2010
It is true that you cant judge a person online, you will only get to know him or her when you meet him or her..
Christina´s last blog ..bzo869