Dad's House

Single Parent Dating
& Parenting Teens

57 Responses to “Breastfeeding Your Man and Blind Date Sex – While Kids are in the Next Room”

1. Comment by MindyMom | March 11th, 2009

   My understanding of Rachel’s story was that she let the guy taste her breast milk but did not actually “feed” him. Either way I pointed out that women have been “tasting” mens bodily fluids FOREVER and fallatio is a widely accepted sexual act. Why are we not hearing about how grossed out people are about THAT? Seems like another example of a double standard to me.

   Since I was also lactating while dating I can say that I was in a vulnerable place at that time, still hormonal and was a single mom with a baby trying to prove to myself that her dad was wrong and men would want to date me. I didn’t have sex with anyone then or even come close but I can understand Rachel’s experience.

   I do not and would not bring a stranger or a blind date home for sex with or without my kids there.

   MindyMom´s last blog post..It’s Always Something

2. Comment by Wondermom | March 11th, 2009

   First off, I’m not entirely sure I agree with your assertion that casual sex is part of the single parenting territory. If you don’t have an issue with casual sex, that’s fine, but I do think it’s possible to be a single parent who is healthy, happy, and satisfied, without picking up strangers on Craigslist for sex. Just sayin!

   As for the story that started this whole mess, I think a lot of people took it out of context. Rachel told this story in her book Single Mom Seeking as well, but perhaps she was a little clearer about the details then. First, she did not breastfeed the date in the way that a lot of people are interpreting it. They made out and he tasted her milk. My understanding is that she did not have sex with him while her daughter was in the next room, it was just making out. And her daughter was only 7 or 8 months at the time…not old enough to walk in or really even notice that there was a strange man in the house. That said, I probably would not have made the same choice that Rachel did, but it’s not what some people are making it into.

   As for her emotional state at the time, my husband was “grossed out” by the idea of me breastfeeding. He was “grossed out” by the idea of childbirth too. After Squirt was born, it was more than 7 months before he’d even consider having sex with me again! He was constantly on my case about wearing a bra 24/7 while I was nursing. He wanted me to cover up when nursing at home or do it in another room. And when we did finally have sex again, he wanted me to keep my shirt on and refused to even touch me above the waist. Yeah, he had issues, but I can totally understand how Rachel would be relieved and excited by the fact that a man was turned on by her as a woman and a mother…the whole package. This was her first date after her breakup and she was still learning the ropes. Rachel’s a big girl and can speak for herself, but I wonder if now, with 8 years as a single mom under her belt, if she’d make the same choices she made that night.

   Wondermom´s last blog post..Calling all single moms!

3. Comment by Wendy | March 11th, 2009

   Oozing judgement! Then you wrote “Who’s to judge?” Apparently you.

   While I agree with every belief you’ve laid out here and hold them as my own personally, I wouldn’t be so bold as to cast the first stone. That slope could get real slippery real fast.

   Irresponsible, selfish? Those are powerful words and words do have power.

   “But whatever. No judgment, either way,” you write. I beg to differ.

   Later:
   “The child might walk in and witness the breastfeeding. (Some kids walk at ten months…”

   Yes, some kids do walk at ten months. Those kids at ten months are sleeping in cribs. They can not get out of them unassisted, thus eliminating safety and well being concerns in general. No worries about that child walking in or around.

   Like I said, while it’s not my cup of tea (pun intended)…to each their own. No judgement, just human beings being human.

   Rachel, I am sorry you will likely find your way to reading this.

   Wendy´s last blog post..Oh Brother…

4. Comment by vinomom | March 11th, 2009

   I think we all make bad judgement calls. My post today sites some of mine. I think Rachel was being brutally honest in that post and as Wondermom says, she wonders if she would make the same choices now. I don’t think I probably would.

   I have had men stay over when my daughter was young. Not strangers, but not boyfriends either. Maybe it was selfish, I can concede that point, and part of it was probably just being young and foolish. But I don’t think my daughter is any worse for wear because of it.

   Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

   vinomom´s last blog post..Single Mama Drama

5. Comment by Dr. Leah www.singlemommyhood.com | March 11th, 2009

   I’m sorry Rachel will find her way to reading this post, too.

   How incredibly judgmental. And, yes, beware the slippery slope.

   We have all made mistakes, missteps, and stumbled along the way. Lots of the advice I offer in The Complete Single Mother was learned first hand in the school of hand knocks.

   Rachel is my partner at singlemommyhood, as you all know. I want it known that she is also a trusted, loyal, and valued friend.

   Dr. Leah http://www.singlemommyhood.com´s last blog post..Have you ever dated a guy who Tweets?

6. Comment by Cathouse Teri | March 11th, 2009

   Well, I suppose it depends on the age of the child! My children are in their twenties, so I’m thinking it’s okay. :)

   I just have one question. Do you really commonly use the word “tits” in conversation?

   Cathouse Teri´s last blog post..The Thing About War

7. Comment by Kat Wilder | March 11th, 2009

   Wow, not your everyday post, Dads.

   I’m going to totally ignore the breast-licking because, well, because I want to. People do all sorts of things for pleasure in their sexual life; I don’t really care.

   Parents should never bring anyone home whom their child hasn’t met while their child is at home. Period.

   Make out in the car, screw in an alleyway, give head in the restaurant bathroom — anything, anywhere (um, does he have a home?) — but not at your home with a sleeping child.

   Did anything “bad” happen? No. Still, it’s just not a good idea.

   Kat Wilder´s last blog post..Sometimes pleasure isn’t so pretty

8. Comment by badmuthablogger | March 11th, 2009

   Well, you’ve certainly ruffled some feathers with this post, and it’s not even 7.30am.

   I must admit, I was a tad put out when I read Rachel’s book about the milkie boob guy. It made me feel uncomfortable, but more about the stranger part than the actual milk sucking.

   I think tasting any bodily fluids during sex is probably OK, although personally I draw my own lines here and there. I’m not into golden showers, for example.

   But the main point you’re making here is that it’s irresponsible to bring a stranger into your child/ren’s home for sex, and speaking as a child who was sexually abused by a stranger, I couldn’t agree more. It only takes a moment for this to happen, and the long-term psychological damage is devastating.

   It is ALWAYS high risk to bring someone you just met back to your home, doubly so if sex is involved and even triply so if alcohol or drugs are involved. ALL of these things (sex is a drug after all) seriously IMPAIR your judgment. When children are around, why take the risk? It’s too much of a gamble; there is too much at stake.

   badmuthablogger´s last blog post..Puking, pesticides and protests

9. Comment by Solomother | March 11th, 2009

   One of the things a appreciated about Rachel’s book was her brutal honesty, about what she got right and what she got wrong.

   Her book allowed a lot of single mothers to understand that we all fuck up from time to time, and we can forgive ourselves for it, move on, and make some other spectacular mess of ourselves.

   I’m not sure why you chose to combine an action with no danger to the child (letting a man taste breast milk… it’s not like she’s feeding the man at the expense of her child!) with bringing a stranger home for sex when the kid is there.

   And you know what? I’m sure tons of single mothers and fathers have made that mistake and no harm came from it. Frankly, con artists are pretty good at hiding their true motivations in order to get what they want. I know enough stories from women who trusted the person they were involved with, and in some cases married them, only to find out their mates weren’t as advertised. I know a couple of men who have been taken for bad, too.

   This all just seems like a poor choice in blogging sensationalism at the expense of a woman who has done much to give single women their self-esteem back.

   Solomother´s last blog post..Making time for exercise in a single mother’s day

10. Comment by katherine. | March 11th, 2009

    Is the breast more sacred when it is a nursing breast? Apparently to some it is…and to some it ceases to be sexual…at least for a while. But I am sure there are plenty of married fathers who lick, taste, and suckle the mothers of their children.

    I remember nursing. Although I was fairly discrete in public, I do recall not thinking of my breasts as sexual for about six months. They became functional.

    I didn’t bring strangers home. Ever. But I had a very convenient schedule with my exhusband and had every other weekend without child. But I have had sex “in the next room” and “down the hall” from my kids. But only with someone who was known to them.

    I will admit to a significant sense of discomfort the first few times my oldest daughter brought her long term boyfriend home and they stayed in the same room….THAT takes some getting use to.

    katherine.´s last blog post..wordless wednesday ~ wilder ranch

11. Comment by ilinap | March 11th, 2009

    A grown man suckling a teat for breastmilk creeps me out. A stranger’s teat at that. I don’t get it. I think he has other issues that I’m not qualified to deal with.

    I worry about my own kids walking in on me and my husband, their father. I cannot imagine being in the same position (ahem) with a stranger. I’m way too paranoid to invite strangers into my home anyway. And yeah, I’m the girl who never had a one night stand. See, all that paranoia robbed of me such pleasures.

12. Comment by Cathouse Teri | March 11th, 2009

    Katherine, my mother still has a hard time when I bring my long term boyfriend home and stay in the same room. And I’m almost 49! :)

    Cathouse Teri´s last blog post..The Thing About War

13. Comment by T | March 11th, 2009

    David…. really?

    I understand about not agreeing with someone’s actions but calling them down like this? Really?

    I knew you didn’t approve of having sex with kids in the house as you made apparent on my blog post here: (http://tsquest.blogspot.com/2008/11/allowing.html)

    I know that many single parents would never consider such an action… and that’s ok. We all do make mistakes. We all have our judgment clouded by our desires. We’re all doing our best with what we know at the time.

    And remember, “my best” may look like something completely different to me on a different day or to you on the same day.

    From what I remember about this story, this date was recommended by some friends of Rachel’s and not a random stranger. Even still, its neither here nor there.

    We all get lonely. We all try to feel validated and wanted in ways that others may or may not agree with. You’ve said yourself that you feel that others judge you based on some of the stuff you write here… even though you’re not always telling the whole story and people make huge assumptions of who they think you are.

    And we are all different people at different times in our lives.

    Personally, you could’ve just as easily made the point that this is something you know some single parents do… but you wouldn’t.

    We would’ve completely respected your opinion on that. Maybe we would have agreed or disagreed but we would have respected your opinion.

    I hope you gave your friend Rachel a heads up before posting this.

    T´s last blog post..Doing my part

14. Comment by angie | March 11th, 2009

    Lurker here, normally enjoy your writing. But wow, basically this post reads: “I’m not one to judge, but here’s a whole bunch of judgmental statements about what this woman did that I don’t approve of.”

    As someone already pointed out, why are you mixing the topic of breastfeeding with the topic of sex in the next room from your kids? What two consenting adults choose to do with their own bodies and their own bodily fluids is nobody’s business. My guess is that more than one woman has had your dick in her mouth and tasted your fluids as well. So what.

    And if someone used their own judgment that the situation was safe, who the hell are you to say it wasn’t? As someone pointed out, babies don’t get up and walk into another room. Even if they can walk… maybe the door was locked, maybe the knob was childproofed, whatever. Who cares. I trust her judgment. Maybe she regrets the decision, just as we all regret things we have done.

    And yes, I too am put off by using ‘tits’ in this post. It’s out of context and done just for the google value. I’m disappointed.

15. Comment by Abby Carter | March 11th, 2009

    Seems to me like your issue here is strangers in the house with kids, rather than the breastfeeding thing. I guess the line can be gray though. At what point does someone morph from being a stranger into being someone who is allowed to come to the house when the kids are there? The fact that the kids have met him? And when is it OK to have sex in the house when the kids are there? When the kids have met him once? twice? or not until you have been dating for 6 months?

    I ask, because as a widow, I don’t get to send my kids off to their dad’s every other weekend. I have my kids 24/7. My son at 9 is still too freaked out by life to do sleepovers.

    True, I would never bring a blind date into my house for sex, but I have brought my boyfriends. And we have had sex in the basement while the kids are asleep upstairs. The boyfriends don’t spend the whole night.

    True, I could pay a babysitter so I could have sex. And now that my kids are old enough to know what’s up, I probably will.

    I guess my question to you though, is when IS it OK to have sex in your own house?

    Abby Carter´s last blog post..The Laundry Song

16. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Kat and Badmutha – thank you for understanding this post. I’m not judging the breastfeeding/adult nursing. That’s a fetish some people like, and that I’m not particularly interested in. But I don’t hold anything against Rachel or anyone else for doing it. Hell, I’ve tasted breast milk.

    My point in this post is you shouldn’t bring a stranger home to hookup when your kids are there. I thought I was pretty clear on that.

    Dr. Leah – is providing an opinion suddenly considered judgment? We all make choices others wouldn’t make. I’m not condeming Rachel Sarah or Penelope Trunk. I sad that “to me” their choices were selfish. Are you saying hooking up with a stranger while your child sleeps in the next room isn’t selfish? That’s your opinion.

    Solomother – Rachel has written about this breastfeeding incident many times before. She easily could have said at Salon that it wasn’t a good idea to hook up while her daughter was sleeping in the next room. She didn’t. As for sensationalism – the fact that Rachel has written about this one incident in two books and multiple blog posts, isn’t that sensationalism? I agree that she has done much for empowering women. But as a single parent, I don’t agree with that choice she made of bringing a stranger home to hook up. Don’t I have a right to express my opinion?

    Wendy – I take offense to what you wrote. “Who’s to judge?” You incorrectly assumed I was being sarcastic, and you interpreted that your own way. I get judged all the time for my hookups, and I sort of don’t care because I know that’s just the perspective of the person. Do I think adult nursing is great, and I want to do it? No. But I don’t condemn those who choose an adult nursing relationship.

    Katherine – I assume some nursing adults find more sacrity in the breastfeeding act than others. It was clear in Rachel Sarah’s Salon.com piece that her blind date was turned-on and sexually aroused by the idea of nursing, and she was too. She wrote that she craved sex, and was curious to have a man drink her milk.

    I too have had sex in my house with my kids sleeping down the hall. But that was with women I had been dating for months, women who the kids had met, women who my ex knew about and had met. Big difference from bringing a stranger home. I think it’s important to teach my kids about committed relationships, and that sex is a healthy part of such a relationship.

    T – how did I call anyone down? Remember my first-date hike post? A lot of women said they would never go on a first-date hike with a man because it seemed dangerous. He could do things. Is that them calling me down? Or is that them expressing their own opinion?

    Please note I qualified my closing statement with “to me” – if you jeapardize your child’s physical, emotional, or mental health simply to quench your own fleeting desire for sex, that to me is irresponsible parenting. And pretty darn selfish. i.e. it’s my opinion. Since when is expressing an opinion calling someone down?

    Rachel has written extensively on this breastfeeding hookup incident, and has every chance to qualify her choices then with how she feels about it now. She didn’t do that in the Salon piece, and I voiced my opinion that it was a poor choice.

    Seems I wrote a piece that made a lot of you react in an emotionally strong way. Just as Rachel Sarah and Penelope Trunk wrote pieces that made me react. That’s good writing. That’s adults expressing themselves. That’s sharing opinion. Any judgment you choose to ascribe to it is your own.

17. Comment by Laura | March 11th, 2009

    Gosh I am not really sure how to comment on this post!

    For me the breastfeeding issue is really not relevant here! I have a feeling that she may have received a very similar response had she said the man had a foot fettish and wanted to suck her toes! I wouldnt have allowed someone to do what she did but I would let them suck my toes – she may be totally freaked out by that!

    So honestly I think your are being a tad judgemental here – and its made a little worse since you and Rachel are friends! You dont need to agree with your friends but you need to have their back – ALWAYS! Its how it works!

    As for the second comment – I havent done it purely cos if my kids are at home then so are my parents so cant bring someone home! BUT I have had 2 men over while my kids were asleep – NOT at the same time obviously!

    I did watch them all the time – never let them wonder the house alone etc etc!

    I am well aware of the emotional damage that can be done to a child but I also believe that every single situation is different and only that mother knows how her children will react and makes a decision based on that! For that she can not be judged! (unless the decison blatantly puts her child in harms way)

    Have to echo Ts questions – hope you warned Rachel about this!

    Laura´s last blog post..Addictions

18. Comment by Honey | March 11th, 2009

    I’m so glad I’m never having kids. Breastfeeding sounds awful…

    Honey´s last blog post..Top 10 Signs You’ve Become an Adult

19. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Abby – great question! I personally would not have a woman sleepover with my kids here until after my kids had met her multiple times and were clearly comfortable with her presence. I don’t have girlfriends meet my kids until we’ve been together a few months. Since I am coparenting, I also make sure my ex knows there is a new woman in my life. For a full-time single parent, what’s the tipping point? That, I don’t know. I imagine you’d want to know the person well enough that you felt safe and comfortable with them. A girlfriend of mine said she won’t sleep with someone until she can picturing herself bearing his child, and the two of them parenting together. But that has nothing to do with single parents.

    Angie – we wrote our comments at the same time, so we didn’t read each other’s responses while we were writing. I hope my comment above answers your questions.

    Laura – the breastfeeding as expressed in Rachel’s Salon piece was a sexual act, and a blind date hookup. Hooking up while kids are at home is what I have issue with.

    I agree it’s great to watch each other’s backs. That doesn’t men we’re all “yes men” who agree with everything someone else says. We blog to express ourselves. I realize that women are more prone to build community, nurture, support each other, etc. Maybe that I’m a man who wrote something that’s not 100% supportive makes me a candidate to be immediately cast out from the flock. Is that how women work? I hope not.

    As for putting a child in harm’s way – if you bring a stranger home for a hookup, you can’t possibly know with any certainty whether you are putting your child in harms way or not, can you? I think it’s better to make a more cautious choice, and put your kids’ safety ahead of your own fleeting desires.

    Babies don’t walk, but grown men do and can enter a child’s room. I expressed that in my post.

20. Comment by Wendy | March 11th, 2009

    I did not assume you were being sarcastic. I felt you were speaking your truth and doing so sincerely.

    To follow up, you surely made judgements. Big time. Like I tell my son, just because you qualify something with “to me” does not let you off the hook (i.e. “mom, to me, in my opinion, you are _____). Still reponsible for the words that follow.

    It’s semantics David.

    You screwed up and I hope you apologize publically to Rachel.

    Wendy´s last blog post..Oh Brother…

21. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Wendy – I didn’t say Rachel was selfish. I said I think that jeopardizing your child’s health for your own desires is selfish. That’s my opinion. You can feel free to disagree.

22. Comment by T | March 11th, 2009

    Well, we’ll all agree to disagree. We all have our own perceptions and our own motives for doing what we do.

    i.e. Rachel

    i.e. David

    David, you’ve said that you didn’t think you sounded harsh and that you were merely expressing your opinion. We’re all about that, hence we wouldn’t be bloggers.

    Maybe it is simply a communication issue. I wonder…. what the men think about this? Maybe your way of communicating doesn’t sound harsh to men. Maybe its just us girls who feel that this post comes off as judgmental?

    Guys? Tell us what YOU think about this.

    Helloooo? Where are all the guys?

    And girls, is there a way David could have expressed his opinion without coming off as judgmental?

    Let’s make this a healthy learning discussion for all involved, can we?

    T´s last blog post..Doing my part

23. Comment by Cathouse Teri | March 11th, 2009

    Well here’s what I say when someone says something like, “To me, what you’re doing is wrong.” ~ It’s none of my business what you think of me. ~ :)

    As far as children go, believe me… it is hard hard hard hard hard for children to even see their divorced parents flirt, or being flirted with. Let alone going on dates and then waking up to these “partners” in their parents’ beds. Regardless of how long they’ve known them. But all of that aside, we all do what we feel is right at the time (as T points out bestly-hee). We cannot possibly make a rule that goes across all boards and protects everyone from everything in everyone’s sight. Real life is real life and we all (including children) must face what that brings. There is nothing wrong with children knowing their parents have needs.

    Incidentally, I also think this was a post that pressed hard against Rachel.

    Cathouse Teri´s last blog post..The Thing About War

24. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    T – yeah, maybe my male way of expressing myself is too direct. How might I have written this differently, and still expressed my opinion? I did have a strong reaction to the hookup-while-kids-are-sleeping part of BOTH posts (Rachel’s and Penelope’s.)

    Which begs the question – how come no one is defending Penelope Trunk for what I wrote about her? Is it because you all know Rachel through blogging? i.e. defending Rachel is personal for you?

    I wonder if you focus on the Penelope Trunk incident described, what’s your opinion on the choice she made?

    Rachel has written about her breastfeeding hookup several times in the past few years. It would be great to hear whether she has new insights into those years-old motivations and choices. Would she make the same choice if she was presented with the same situation again?

    Teri – I agree, Rachel shouldn’t care what I think of her, just as you shouldn’t care what I think of you, or anyone else care what I think about them. But I didn’t write what I think about Rachel or anyone else. I wrote what I think about a particular choice. I referenced pieces on the internet as example. One piece is by a single mom you all blog with, the other is someone most of you don’t blog with.

    I wonder if we can focus on the choice, and not on the person. That choice seems an issue worth discussing. Abby already said she doesn’t know the answer to the question: when is it okay for a single parent to start having sleepovers or sex while kids are at the house?

    I agree we can’t make a rule that works for everyone in all cases. But I also think it’s worth discusssing.

25. Comment by Eathan | March 11th, 2009

    Well I’m glad I’m not the only single dad/Swirl dater/ blogger who has had drama on his site. haha

    As many of you know from my history of dating, booty calls, quickies, long & short term FWB.. I’m not one to judge. I like sex, actually I love sex. I practice as much as possible with a suitable partner. With my open views of sexual relationships and fetish.. there are plenty that I don’t get or understand.

    I don’t understand the breastfeeding fetish.. the adult diaper fettish and my list goes on. But I do understand the need for sexual satisfaction and experimentation. From what I can tell.. Rachel seems to be open minded to try something new. But we all make choices that aren’t so wise when we look at it afterwards. Like the time we had sex in the rainy/muddy field.. got my jeep stuck in the mud and had to call for help. Most recently.. I had sex in my FWB ex husband’s house. (he was out of town..but it was weird)

    I will admit that I’ve had a hook up when my kids were on the side of the house in their room sleeping. It happens. And sometimes when hormones and sex get involved.. we all make bad choices.

    I hope that everyone just enjoys the difference of opinions..and not try to throw rocks at Dadshouse bedroom. (don’t want to hit the kids windows) haha

    Eathan´s last blog post..When Good Goes Bad

26. Comment by Dr. Leah www.singlemommyhood.com | March 11th, 2009

    It’s quite obvious, David, that you have not read Rachel’s book.

    In that breastfeeding chapter, Rachel is VERY clear that she was ambivalent, and showed that she felt selfish. If anyone want the direct quote from the book, I’d be happy to post it.

    Secondly, the Salon.com piece was an EXCERPT. Rachel did NOT know what was going to run, the Salon.com editors excerpted the parts they wanted…and left out her feelings of ambivalence.

    Dr. Leah http://www.singlemommyhood.com´s last blog post..Have you ever dated a guy who Tweets?

27. Comment by notasoccermom | March 11th, 2009

    I am a sexually active single parent. I am a full-time parent, as my ex is not in the area. This makes it more difficult to keep my kids out of that equation, but not impossible. I would and have not ever brought a man back to my house with the kids here or not.
    I don’t condone nor do I praise casual sex for single parents. It is a choice.
    SAFETY of yourself, and your child(ren) is not as much a choice as it is a necessity.
    SAFE casual sex for anyone (parent or not) is essential. And that includes being safe in areas such as, knowing a bit about the partner and not letting them know EVERYTHING there is to know about you. Bringing anyone into your house is scary. But bringing them into your house with your children there, sex or not is potentially dangerous.
    I have been a single parent for 11 years, I am sexually active and practice casual sex with strangers on occasion. But my kids are not involved in that in any way. And certainly not in the same building. Even now, as teens, my kids do not know details of my sexuality. I don’t keep it a secret that I date. But I would never bring a man into my house in the first month or so of dating. and never for sex.
    As for breastfeeding, on a date? there are many kinks. different strokes and all that.. I wouldnt choose that but then, I wouldnt let a one nighter put handcuffs on me either.. safety is the key.
    Note: sexually transmitted disease is spread by bodily fluids.

    notasoccermom´s last blog post..Mom and son time

28. Comment by Kevin | March 11th, 2009

    Wow, man, kinda harsh here. I read Rachel’s book from cover to cover. And maybe if I was a woman, there are some things she did that I wouldnt.
    But as you said yourself, who are we to judge.
    Every day you are alive, you try to make the best decision you can make about your life with the answers you have at that time.
    If you are lonely and needing physical intimacy, you do what you can to get it – with the answers you have at that time about how best you should get it.
    If I remember, Rachel’s book was about her journey from waking up one day to find the father of her child gone to where she is now _ a totally independent woman who does not neccesarily need a man to feel ok.
    To take that journey, you make decisions that you may not be proud of. And even as I say that, I cant think of something in her book that was something she should not be proud of or squeamish about. She was doing the best she could with what she knew at the time.
    I dont get why you lament the decision she made concerning the breastfeeding of the man. If a woman said “no” to a man everytime the situation was not perfect (kid in the next room, lactating, emotionally depressed, time of month, etc) nobody would ever make out.
    I think Rachel was pretty brave to throw her life out there so that other mothers could feel like they are not the only ones going through what they are going through.

    Kevin´s last blog post..Well, that was a strange reaction

29. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Dr. Leah – I read Rachel’s book last year, and none of that ambivalence came out in the Salon piece. I’m sorry if Salon editors presented her voice in a that went against Rachel’s wishes.

    Kevin – my post is a response to Rachel’s recent Salon piece, and also to the recent piece by Penelope Trunk. Rachel’s book came out a few years ago. Her Salon piece could have addressed new insights. Apparently, Salon editors didn’t want that.

    I realize that single parents are presented with different choice opportunities than other people. That’s why I find single parent blogs and articles interesting to read and react to. I wrote the following in my piece: Hey Ann Coulter – It’s Evolution, Baby!

    Single parents rock because we’re outside the comfort zone of society. We’re trying to find happiness on our own terms, with whatever hand we’re dealt.

    We are surviving and growing, and helping the next generation evolve.

    My post today was written with evolution in mind. I personally think bringing a blind-date hookup home while your kids are sleeping is not the best choice. Does it happen? Sure. In restrospect, should it? If we don’t express opinions, and all anyone reads is what the editors at Salon choose to run, then we’re stunted in our chance to discuss issues relevant to our single parent community, and slower to evolve.

30. Comment by Me Thinks | March 11th, 2009

    Wow, I am fascinated with this response. This is a pretty judgemental piece and it IS about the breastfeeding incident just as much as it is about the sex-while-kids-are-sleeping topic (hello? read your title). I think if the topic were just about hooking up with someone you hardly know while your kids are sleeping it would be a different debate. And if you used an example including a father.

    This is not so cut and dry. Making out on the couch while your baby sleeps would probably not raise many eyebrows, the only difference is she was lactating. Big deal, same thing just involves breastmilk.

    But engaging in a one-nighter when your kids are old enough to wake up and walk in and see it is another.

    There are all kinds of extenuating circumstances though. My living situation is kids rooms upstairs and mine downstairs. No chance anyone can wander into their rooms accidently and I can hear someone on the steps (wood floors). Yet I am an advocate of LOCKING YOUR BEDROOM DOOR. So no worries there when my boyfriend is over. Nonetheless someone new(ish, even) would never be hooking up with me when my kids are home.

    One consideration is that a LOT of women have very few – or no – nights without their kids and the only choice is a babysitter. PAY THE SITTER. Its an investment well worth it.

    Making this kind of choice does not equate to bad parenting, you can’t know the whole story/situation. But its certainly not something I’m willing to do, I’d exhaust my other options first.

31. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Me Thinks – once again, my reference to the breastfeeding is because it was a recent piece by Rachel on Salon. It actually came out over a week ago, and I didn’t react at the time. I only reacted after I read Penelope Trunk’s post, and after reading some single moms supporting the sexual empowerment they found in the breastfeeding post.

    At some point, an emotional tipping point was reached inside me where I felt “hey, wait a minute. These single parents are bringing strangers home for sex while their kid is sleeping in the next room. I don’t agree with that.” I blogged my reaction.

    I agree there are always extenuating circumstances. No one has walked in anyone else’s shoes. But in neither Rachel’s Salon piece nor Penelope Trunk’s piece did either writer express any misgiving to the situation they were in. That bothered me.

    I would have included a single dad example if I’d seen one. I agree it’s not a mom vs. dad issue. It’s a single parent issue.

32. Comment by Me Thinks | March 11th, 2009

    Defensive much? I know you are getting raked over the coals here but my point was that this has turned into a debate mostly over the breastfeeding and not about bringing home a stranger while your kids are there. I think if that was your issue you sort of missed the mark because your argument is comingling with a topic that gets people riled up.

    Personally I’m in agreement with your bottom line. I was just saying that the challenges we all face are not equal and I’d certainly have framed my opinion in more cautious terms. But hell, wouldn’t be such a passionate debate then, now would it?

33. Comment by Edgar | March 11th, 2009

    At the risk of raising the ire of the XX-chromosomers here, a careful reading of David’s post indicates that he was stating his opinions about various behaviors or actions, and not flatly impugning the character of either of his targets. He is clearly judging those actions, according to his standards, and readers are free to agree or not. I personally don’t agree with his angst concerning specific bodily fluids, and also have a more accommodating view of what sexuality is appropriate with children near. But I don’t think he should qualify his statements or avoid expressing his opinion, especially if he is not being rude, crude or ignorant (which I have never found him to be.)

34. Comment by Phil | March 11th, 2009

    I haven’t made a comment on any of this over the last week…I wasn’t offended, but I did think the Salon article was edited very badly. It makes sense now that Dr. Leah says that Rachel wasn’t involved. I think people who read Rachel’s blog or book and know her better would have a much different reaction than someone who read that article cold. It wasn’t flattering.

    I have to stick up for DH here – I’m tired of people saying ‘You need to have an open mind, how dare you criticize her…’. Since when does having an open not allow anyone to make a judgment? To me, the opposite is true. You can be friends and still point out mistakes. You all need a thicker skin.

    I don’t believe any double standard was involved. If DH wrote an article on Salon about a woman tasting his fluids… he would also be heavily criticized. It isn’t entertaining and it isn’t enlightening. If some women found Rachel’s article empowering…great, but I don’t see it.

    While I agree the kids should meet a guy before you sleep with him in the house, if they are under 2 or 3, it’s very different. It’s very unlikely the child would have any clue as to what is going on. If you are a single parent who never gets a night off, reality trumps everything. The argument that the man might go into the kid’s room is something entirely different…

35. Comment by vinomom | March 11th, 2009

    I’ve been back and forth reading the comments all day. I just want to say that I agree with everything Phil just said. I think it’s the most sensible comment I’ve seen all day.

    DH – I think the article is judgemental, but like Phil said, since when does having an open mind no allow judgements? We know you are big single parent advocate of women and men, but that doesn’t mean you don’t judge other single parents, we all make judgements of others, either privately or openly.

    I do agree with you that some commenters are defending Single Mom Seeking as a person, and not her actions.

    vinomom´s last blog post..Single Mama Drama

36. Comment by krn | March 11th, 2009

    After reading this post (haven’t read the comments yet, but I will, it looks like a very juicy comment section), I feel very conservative.

    No, I wouldn’t breastfeed a date or a hookup and no, I wouldn’t bring someone into our home that I don’t know very well. Maybe because I work with people with criminal backgrounds, substance abuse issues and mental illness quite a bit, it’s a safety and health issue for me. Just saying, you can’t tell my looking or even by having dinner with someone what the true intent is. Not trying to be alarmist, it’s just that my awareness of potential problems is high, so I’m careful.

    If others are comfortable with either situation and enjoy it safely, great. Good for you~

37. Comment by PhenomenalMama | March 11th, 2009

    For me, personally, breastfeeding someone other than my children just isn’t my bag. When I was back in my breastfeeding days, my boobs had ONE purpose – nourishing my child – and were “hands off” for everyone else. But that’s me. Different people make different choices.

    As for bringing someone into my home that I didn’t know very well, I just wouldn’t do it. Not just for the safety of my children, but for my own safety as well. Personally, I would rather be over-cautious and miss out on some fun, then be under-cautious and end up regretting it for the rest of my life. Again – that’s my personal choice on the matter.

    PhenomenalMama´s last blog post..The “Un-date” Report

38. Comment by angie | March 11th, 2009

    Again, I think it was a mistake to mix these two topics. That’s why you’re getting the reactions you’re getting. If you wanted to discuss the issue of a man sucking a woman’s “tits”(and clearly you did by directly, in BOLD, asking “But is breastfeeding your man on a blind date a good and healthy choice? (for anyone involved?)”), why attach that to the issue of whether kids are in the next room?

    And if you want to discuss the issue of sex while the kids are in the next room, then why bring up the breastfeeding in such an inflammatory way? You wrote: “The bigger point for me: what if a mother is letting a man nurse from her boobs while her child is in the next room?”

    I’m guessing, or would at least hope, that most people would find the first perfectly acceptable between two consenting adults, and the second issue to be a very gray area, specific to the people involved, the age of the kids, etc.

    This statement really bothered me: “The child might walk in and witness the breastfeeding. (snip) Or the man might find his way alone into the child’s room. I’m thinking either might mess a kid up.”

    I’m sorry, but comparing the trauma that a child might receive by witnessing the breastfeeding to potentially being molested is laughable.

39. Comment by The Exception | March 11th, 2009

    I am with Phil on this one – probably enough said. This is a discussion regarding actions – not people.

    The Exception´s last blog post..Dig If You Will A Picture…

40. Comment by krn | March 11th, 2009

    Tasting breast milk during sex is different than an adult breastfeeding relationship. That implies something other than a few minutes of experimentation. Or it was a very short relationship.

    I don’t love David’s choice of the word tit in this post, but I don’t find it offensive, either. Breasts are called many things. Tata would have bothered me more.

    Rachel has many loyal friends here. That’s nice. We all need friends.

41. Comment by katherine. | March 11th, 2009

    This has been very interesting, insightful, and entertaining commentary.

    katherine.´s last blog post..wordless wednesday ~ wilder ranch

42. Comment by Damo | March 11th, 2009

    Wow!

    It’s interesting reading the reactions and interpretation of the written word. We all have opinions and yes even though they are ours they can draw reaction from others.

    Communication is about what the other person hears (or reads).

    I reckon these comments are a great example of how much better we can communicate in person.

    Funny thing being human!

43. Comment by Cathouse Teri | March 11th, 2009

    Ummm…. I think I’m now speechless. ;)

    Cathouse Teri´s last blog post..The Thing About War

44. Comment by Kevin | March 11th, 2009

    DH
    If your point is that Rachel should not have been messing around with a man her kid didnt know, then, I’m still saying the point is a little off base. I think her kid was so young at the time that, like one poster said earlier, she wouldn’t have known what she was seeing.
    And again, lets say it was you or even me. We are single parents with sole custody. We can’t get a babysitter over and somebody we like wants to come over. The kid is in the next room asleep. Your date comes over and wants you. Now. What? Do you say, “No, we can’t fool around now Miss America because my kid is asleep in the next room and I don’t wanna scar him/her for life” OF COURSE NOT.

    Kevin´s last blog post..Well, that was a strange reaction

45. Comment by dadshouse | March 11th, 2009

    Phil, Edgar, and others – thanks for the support.

    Kevin – the point wasn’t about whether sex with someone we like is okay while kids are home, it was about two single moms, Penelope and Rachel, bringing home strangers for a hookup while the kids were asleep. I think that’s a big difference.

    Angie – I didn’t mean to “compare” the two traumas. I meant to list them side by side as being traumatic. Clearly, there are different traumas involved.

    To everyone I rankled, sorry! http://dadshouseblog.com/2009/03/11/sorry-to-rankle/

46. Comment by Canadian Bald Guy | March 11th, 2009

    Maybe it is simply a communication issue. I wonder…. what the men think about this? Maybe your way of communicating doesn’t sound harsh to men. Maybe its just us girls who feel that this post comes off as judgmental?

    Guys? Tell us what YOU think about this.

    Helloooo? Where are all the guys?
    This was a question from T in an earlier comment. And I’ll be 100% honest with you, this post from Dads kinda made me a bit uncomfortable and I really didn’t feel like commenting when I initially read it earlier today. I can’t speak for the other men who have already commented, but I just didn’t know what to say at first because the post kind of took be by surprise.

    Now, I agree with the notion that bringing home strangers for a hookup while the kids are asleep probably isn’t the smartest thing in the world to do. But let’s be honest…it really could happen to any one of us given certain circumstances. I certainly don’t think I’d do it…but I can’t be 100% certain. I don’t know if any of us could be 100% confident in a situation like that.

    Perfect guy…perfect girl…perfect chemistry…the animal instincts take over…the “hookup” is gone before the kids wake up….

    I dunno. I can’t really judge others without being in their shoes at that particular time, regardless of how wrong I may think it is.

    In terms of the breast milk “incident”, I just think it’s a bit gross. But again…to each their own. If she didn’t have a problem with it and he didn’t have a problem with it…then let ‘em go to town on that boob. All the power to them.

    Canadian Bald Guy´s last blog post..Vacation with M: Day Five

47. Comment by Kari | March 11th, 2009

    You know I find really the fact that you only posted about what you deem bad parenting as single mother stories insulting. Single mothers are put under a microscope that single dads just don’t seem to ever be under. Further, while I can appreciate this is an opinion piece you had to have known it would incite quite a posting frenzy of opinions for and against you.

    I wonder what kinds of things you have done that might be considered poor parenting choices, selfish even by others and how you might feel about that. Really as single parents can we just get off the judgement horse already? We make mistakes, we have different views on acceptable and unacceptable but we all face the same things daily. We are all judged by someone for something and it hurts so why do that to each other?

    Since we are offering opinions here… I hardly think Rachel was emotionally damaging her infant daughter by having a man in her home she made out with/hooked up with or whatever else happened that day.

    Kari´s last blog post..Update on George and T

48. Comment by PT-LawMom | March 11th, 2009

    Interesting post all the way around. I can say that I can understand why Rachel would have given into her sexual desire with the breastfeeding thing and that it was really raw and honest of her to share her ambivalence over giving up her daughter’s milk in that way. Rachel rocks!

    As for the sex-when-the-kids-are-home thing, I’m with the camp that says it’s not the ideal choice or the best plan but sometimes these things happen. There are a lot of single parents who have their kids full-time with no money for sitters who still need to have their needs met. If they are super-careful (guy comes in after the kids are asleep and leaves before they wake up), I think there could be a place for it if there is no other option. Until you’ve walked a mile in a full-time single mom’s shoes…

    And if you got riled up on this post, stay away from the several I’ve posted this week about my various Craigslist hookups. Thanks for the idea, David… LOL.

    PT-LawMom´s last blog post..Crap on a cracker and no sleep

49. Comment by Was a single Mama | March 11th, 2009

    I was a single Mama for my dd’s first 2.5 years. I had sole custody, her bio dad was out of the picture from early in the pregnancy.
    I tried very hard to keep my sex life seperate from my life with her, and was pretty careful not to expose her to any danger or distress. Once I had a guy I was casually seeing (who I knew through friends) over for a hookup while she was asleep in the other room, we had two flatmates though, and he couldn’t have gone into her room or anything without me knowing, so I don’t think there was any danger. She also met a good friend of mine who I had known for about 10 years and was having a casual sexual relationship with, but we never did anything sexual in front of her, not even hug or anything.
    Other than that she only met my current husband :)
    I think that it is definitely appropriate to limit your children’s exposure to your sexual life, but personally I don’t know enough about the situations described to decide whether these women were doing that.

50. Comment by SIngle Mom | March 12th, 2009

    I don’t think I would bring a stranger home with my child in the next room. Too many negative things could possibly happen.

    SIngle Mom´s last blog post..BRITNEY’S CONCERT

51. Comment by HIP_M0M | March 12th, 2009

    There are so many topics discussed in your post (and the 50 comments) but the one thing that jumped out at me is the fact that you discussed the idea of bringing home a late-night date with your pre-teen son.

    My son is only 5 and I have yet to ‘figure out’ how I will approach the subject of sex when he’s old enough to comprehend, but I’m wondering what exactly your son and daughter know about your sex life and if they read your blog posts – or if your ex does?

    I’m trying to understand how “responsible parenting” falls in line with what you’re teaching your children (indirectly) by being so open and embracing of casual sex.

    I work with families on a regular basis (as a parent coach) and one of the biggest issues surrounding sex – these days – is the increase in the number of individuals with STDs and how casual sex is often the most likeliest of instances where people “casually” forget to protect themselves with condoms…

    Maybe I’m veering off topic here, but since you brought up “irresponsible parenting” my mind went right to “irresponsible sex.”

    HIP_M0M´s last blog post..How Do You Define Love?

52. Comment by dadshouse | March 12th, 2009

    Hip Mom – that’s a great point that needs some clarification by me. My son and I didn’t discuss casual sex. I simply asked how he felt if I brought home a strange woman late at night while he slept. He was very uncomfortable with the idea.

    What can he compare it to? Well, I have invited a single mom friend over for dinner with the kids a few times. She and I were not dating, so it was just having a friend over. When I had a girlfriend, she would spend the night. But she always showed up when the kids were awake, spent the evening with all of us, then was there again in the morning. My son knows nothing about my sexual activity.

    I think he’s comfortable with me inviting a woman he knows over for the evening while he is awake. Granted, at some point he has to meet a woman for the first time. He’d prefer meeting her when awake than waking up in the morning and meeting her.

    Responsible sex is a big deal for me. Hence my post: Who Needs Protection? It’s Only a One Night Stand in which I advocate safe sex practices. And my post: How to Talk to Your Daughter About Sex. (The how to talk to your son about sex version points to this one, as the meat of the material is here.)

53. Comment by Hectorina Smithe | April 1st, 2009

    My guy nursed from my breasts for years, and still does. He is 6′2″ and is a lawyer. He grew up in Sicily and was breastfed until he was five. Perhaps that is why he loves it so. He suckles from each breast about 20 minutes each. In truth, it brings me to orgasm – twice. It is one of the most intimate things that two people can do. We are always in our own bedroom and ou child does not see any of this.
    I carry around quite a bit of milk in my breasts, but the joy it brings to both of us is worth it. I don’t ever want to stop lactating. I guess this is not what every couple would want to do, but to each his own.

54. Comment by Melifera | April 4th, 2009

    I have two roommates living with me and my daughter in our loft. This means that my kid has seen her share of my roommates ‘friends’ coming in and out in the mornings. She has also met a small handful (small being the key word here) of men I’ve had stay the night. One may think that such behavior is irresponsible, but then I would dare that person to come hang out in my space and speak with my very smart, worldly, articulate daughter, and then talk to me to see if they still think damage is being done.

    As parents, we all make different choices regarding how we raise our kids. My daughter has made it clear that she wants to meet the people I date, and I see no reason why I ought to hide my occasional sleepovers… There is nothing wrong with sex, it’s how one takes responsibility. My daughter is too young to understand that anything besides innocent sleeping has occurred with men who have stayed over.

    The breastfeeding issue has nothing to do with the sleepover issue. What people decide to do behind closed doors is their own issue. Just make sure that you’re prepared to talk to your kid about whatever it is you might be doing, should he or she happen into your room in the middle of the night.

    For the record, I no longer have sleepovers at my house. My kid is now seven, and I don’t feel like having a discussion with her regarding what I might be doing with a fella who might be sleeping over.

    But you know what? I don’t have a problem with a woman (or a man) who continues to have sleepovers, as long as she has a plan for how she wants to talk to her kid(s).

    What happened to choice? God knows my life might appall some parents… But their lives might equally appall me (for starters, I don’t hold back much from my kid- and I find it appalling that some parents neglect to give their kids honest, direct answers to some of life’s big issues).

    This issue clearly struck a nerve with a great many folk, and mostly it seems that is because we all hold slightly different ethical systems.

    Interesting, both the posting and all the comments that have followed…

    Melifera´s last blog post..I wish I could offer Judith Warner my boob

55. Comment by dadshouse | April 5th, 2009

    Melifera – I agree we all have our own value systems. And I have no problem with a single mom having her boyfriend sleepover, or a single dad having his girlfriend sleepover. My kids have met two of my girlfriends, and those women did sleepover on occasion.

    The issue I have is bringing home a blind date for a hookup while the kids are in the house and have never met that person. That doesn’t sit well with me for all the reasons described in this post.

    Yes, this one struck a nerve, didn’t it? Glad to hear your point of view, especially with your living situation.

56. Comment by Heather | September 29th, 2009

    I didn’t see that as an attack on her.

    I remember though when I was younger that my mom would bring men home…some of them I had met prior, some I had not. I remember walking in on my mom having sex when I was about 7 or 8. And I don’t even know how many times I’d heard a man’s voice in the morning after my mom had gone out… That was 25 yrs ago, but I still remember it like it was yesterday.. and most of the guys were jerks/scumbags/a$$holes!
    Heather´s last blog ..my….my….my….

57. Comment by Hectorina Smithe | September 30th, 2009

    We come into this world with an instinct to nurse at a breast. I believe this desire and instinct does not go away. Having my guy nurse at my breast gives us both satisfaction.
    It brings me to orgasm and arouses him as well. A win, win situation.

Leave a Reply

Name (required)

Mail (will not be published) (required)

Website

Dad's House
© 2008-09 David Mott, DadsHouseBlog.com. All rights reserved. Privacy notice. Terms of use.