A Woman Walked Out on Me in a Bar
I was recently at a restaurant bar with a single mom friend, catching up over drinks. (I tried dating her a few summers back, and the chemistry wasn’t there for more than friendship.)
We were sharing stories about our current dating prospects when the bartender interrupted our conversation.
“I’m sorry, I don’t mean to eavesdrop,” he said to me. “But I don’t think she understands your predicament.”
“I understand David fine,” my friend said. “He gives up too easily on the women he’s trying to date. The guy I’m seeing right now has been trying to date me for years.”
“See, that’s the problem exactly,” the bartender said. “There aren’t enough women in Silicon Valley, so the women who are here have their pick. They don’t treat men with respect.”
His respect point seemed extreme, but I sort of got his point. I sometimes went weeks trying to land a single date. And I’d been the victim of last-minute cancellations by women who suddenly had more attractive plans fall in their lap. Believe me, it doesn’t feel good. (That said, I spent one summer dating four women at once, so I know there are definitely single women here.)
The bartender and I started talking about the Silicon Valley dating scene. It was almost as if he’d read this blog. He’d been through so many crappy situations that I could relate to, just as I’d had experiences he understood. We were fueling each other’s fire, and our conversation got pretty intense.
“My last girlfriend wanted me to act a certain way, spend my money a certain way,” he said. “It was all about her. When I finally stood up for myself, she broke up and found some other guy to tell what to do.”
The bartender was clearly pissed, and I sort of knew how he felt. A few women had treated me like that. Just as I’m sure there are men who treat women that way. Sometimes, it’s par for the course.
The bartender turned to my single mom friend and tried engaging her in the debate. She stiffened, clearly not wanting to be drawn in.
“You see,” the bartender said, pointing a finger at her, “right now, by refusing to talk about this subject, you are calling the shots, trying to get us to be a certain way. You’re just like every other Silicon Valley woman.”
I chuckled. He’d made a good point. Granted, maybe she just wanted to enjoy her gin and tonic and chat with me. Maybe she didn’t like the heated conversation. Maybe she was hoping he’d ask her out. There were a million good reasons for her not to debate him.
But the fact that she flitted from relationship to relationship, ending one whenever it hit a speed bump, knowing there were five other guys chasing her and she could have her pick of men, some who’d been chasing her for years, completely made the bartender’s point.
My single mom friend stood up. “I’m not going to sit here and take this,” she said. “You guys are too intense. And I won’t have anyone pointing at me. I’m leaving.”
Huh?
She walked straight out of the bar, leaving me sitting alone with our drinks. WTF?
In three decades of dating and relating, I’ve only once had a woman walk out on me in a bar, and I was barely 21 then. I learned from that experience, and I think I’m now charming enough to not have to worry it might happen again. Granted, she seemed to have left because of the bartender, not because of me. But she’d lumped the bartender and me together when she said we were too intense. (Just as he had lumped her with every other Valley woman. I can see how she felt attacked.) Still, it had only been a barroom debate.
My single mom friend later told me she felt threatened when the bartender pointed at her. She also said she didn’t want to hear about my dating struggles. She asked that I never talk about that aspect of my life again. And yet, for years she has felt free to discuss her dating life with me.
Clearly, something about all this struck her to the core, just as it struck a nerve with the bartender. Hey, it struck me too – what kind of a friend walks out on a friend, then tells them how to act?
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Comment by Bob
| August 25th, 2009
It sounds like the bartender is cock blocking you.
Comment by Alicia
| August 25th, 2009
@Bob – LMAO!
@David – She sounds like an uptight ice queen – good riddance. You don’t need her bad juju bringing you down.
Alicia´s last blog ..When Is Enough Too Much?
Comment by Ginger Magnolia
| August 25th, 2009
That was a crappy thing for her to do! Also, I think I’m living in the wrong part of the country!
Ginger Magnolia´s last blog ..Totally Music Tuesday
Comment by BigLittleWolf
| August 25th, 2009
My oh my. Point 1 – You don’t know what else was going on in her life that day (or week) that something in the scenario or conversation triggered. Was there something she wanted to discuss with you, and never got a chance? Point 2 – sounds like you and the bartender were sucking up the air in that little three-way, and she probably felt a bit attacked, or at the very least, the third wheel. Point 3 – your bartender bud had an axe to grind. A shame he did so on your time, and hers. And in a pretty insulting way.
BigLittleWolf´s last blog ..Fly, fly, fly on the wall… teeny tiny, it’s a ball…
Comment by staciesmadness
| August 25th, 2009
wow.
she clearly wants it to be all about her.
Comment by justrun
| August 25th, 2009
It sounds to me like she needs to grow up. If she couldn’t take ignoring the bartender, kindly asking him to butt out, or suggesting you move to another table, there’s something immature about that. Sure, she could have been having a bad day, but you don’t get to treat friends that way because of it. Hopefully she called to later to apologize.
justrun´s last blog ..Growing, new projects, and making peace with gas
Comment by Erica
| August 25th, 2009
I’m sorry, but I feel for your friend. From what I just read, it looked as though she were being attacked for every man’s bad dating experiences in the Silicon Valley. I’m sure that being told that you’re “just like every other woman in Silicon Valley” made her feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Sorry – but I would have left you two to continue the conversation without me as well.
Erica´s last blog ..Bye, Butthead
Comment by vinomom
| August 25th, 2009
There is a lot of ways she could have handled that besides walking out. That is rude, no matter what the situation. If it was a date, then I could understand. But to go out as friends and get all huffy about talking about dating? That just makes no sense. In short. She sounds like a bitch.
vinomom´s last blog ..Can You Smoke and Live Strong?
Comment by Just Me...
| August 25th, 2009
First, she was a little rude. She probably knows that and feels justified, even if she really isn’t.
Second, she ‘collects’.. Men, things, etc.. And wants you to be a part of her ‘he wants me’ collection.. That’s a category you want to avoid.
Third, she’s not really your friend.. Sorry.. But the truth is the truth.. Acquaintance, maybe, but not a real friend..
Fourth, if she really felt ‘threatened’ and justified, she should have stood her ground, made her point, then told you all of fuck off.. After all, what’s the worst that would have happened? You two would have disagreed with her? It’s not like anyone was going to punch her! Sheesh!! I hate women like this.. They give the rest of us a bad name.. :)
Just Me…´s last blog ..Guilty pleasures..
Comment by T
| August 25th, 2009
Ha @Bob!
First of all, the only time anyone feels the need to defend something (or run away from it)is if there is some truth to the “attack”.
She must have felt some truth to this and didn’t like the way it felt. Maybe this exchange will help her to face some things about her habits. Maybe this exchange will ultimately allow her to find happiness in a real relationship.
And hopefully, you didn’t buy into the whole “there aren’t enough women” or “all women act like this” ploy that the bartender was convinced of.
You do know better, right? You won’t let those negative thoughts creep in, right?
T´s last blog ..Size
Comment by CJ
| August 25th, 2009
I agree this was really rude. Now, if she had called later and explained how she felt and maybe why, I could have understood and perhaps sympathized, we all have those days. However, it appears that when she did talk to you later, instead of trying to help you understand her point of view, she instead began telling you how to act, talk, etc. If she doesn’t want to hear about your dating woes…Ok, I guess, but then she has to abide by the same rules and not talk about her dating issues either. Limiting friendships this way is fine in theory, but doesn’t seem very “friendly.”
CJ´s last blog ..Well, it’s started again…
Comment by jason
| August 25th, 2009
since when did the bartender stop listening to your problems and start telling you his problems? He clearly did not know his trade.
There must be a back story for your single mom friend. Hopefully you find this out and fill us in.
I am not sure how a friend can ask you (or vice versa) that you never bring up a topic of conversation again, that is not the way to be a friend.
Maybe give her a week and see how she is doing :-)
Comment by hipm0m77
| August 25th, 2009
I can’t judge since I haven’t heard her side of the story, but she does remind me of those drama queens that run out on a situation or discussion and expect a man to chase her down. I have actually been this woman which is pretty hard to admit, but she’s used to being chased (literally and figuratively) and doesn’t know how else to respond to an uncomfortable situation.
She obviously did not like feeling attacked and labeled, but who does?
I have not walked out on someone since my early 20s and would never do that again. If someone had truly offended me, I do have enough self-respect to stand up for myself and hold my ground. A healthy debate can be quite entertaining actually…
From my own personal experience, I’m assuming that this woman is embarrassed by her behavior and not wanting to talk about relationships to avoid that uncomfortable feeling again. Sounds like she needs a friend like you (and your blog) to help her sort through her own issues.
I hope she’s reading this.
hipm0m77´s last blog ..I Feel Pretty
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| August 25th, 2009
Did you seriously not think that she would find this conversation to be directly offensive toward her? Especially when he started pointing his finger at her?! You know me, David. And I most definitely would have walked out, as well. Although I may have started more fireworks before my boots would let me do any walking.
First off, bartenders have no business getting into such heated debates. It is their job to be agreeable. This guy clearly didn’t know his place.
Secondly, it sounds to me like both of you are trying to create a “silicon valley woman” when such a thing doesn’t really exist.
The fact is ~ dating life can be hard work. No matter what your sex and no matter where you live. This guy’s story was a big whiny boy story about a woman who left him and he had to decide she was a bad person in order to swallow that jagged pill. But if she was such a bad person, why hadn’t he left her? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???
Cathouse Teri´s last blog ..Angels Can Fly…
Comment by dadshouse
| August 25th, 2009
Jason and Teri – I totally agree that the bartender shouldn’t have butted into the conversation. That’s poor bartending form. On the other hand, I related to some of his stories, so I totally got sucked in to a conversation with him.
I agree my single mom friend might have raised some hell first. It was quite abrupt. She was quietly sitting there, then just stood and left. She could have at least called us dicks first ;-)
T – census bureau statistics back me up on this, there are more single men than single women in Silicon Valley. It’s one of the worst ratios in the US. That said, I try to stay positive and remember I don’t need an equal number of men and women, I need one woman for me.
And remember, there are things I don’t blog about…
Comment by jason
| August 25th, 2009
dad, i think you just nailed it yourself. You should have been relating to your friend and not the bartender.
Teri already nailed the bartender, everyone has been heartbroken, dont put your customers off by it.
When the bartender started to point and call our your friend you needed to find a way to cool him down, or go find a table away from the bar (maybe play pool) not engage the guy more!
Comment by Danielle
| August 25th, 2009
I may not be a good one to comment, but I don’t take offense to much and I love a heated debate. I would have been right there with the bartender getting into the heat of the conversation.
Plus, from what I have been personally learing, is that you take things as you percieve people are thinking about you, because that is how you feel about yourself. So I am guessing that you hit a cord with her and what she knows of herself.
Just my .02
Danielle´s last blog ..Keeping Busy to Avoid Life
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| August 25th, 2009
Just want to add one more thing. It does not sound to me like David’s friend was being oversensitive. The bartender attacked her. David was drawn in and made a co-attacker. They both got walked out on.
As far as debating goes, in order for it to be effective, it must remain respectful. Otherwise, it’s just throwing shit around. It can even be heated and passionate, but if people are being pointed out or being called names, it is no longer a fruitful debate and just a blasting session.
Cathouse Teri´s last blog ..Angels Can Fly…
Comment by Andrea
| August 25th, 2009
Okay your friend sounds like she needed to relax a bit. No matter what’s going on (within normal boundaries of course) there is no a reason to say something like that and then just walk away. The better idea would to have been try to pull you aside and say she wanted to just talk with you or you could meet up another time.
For her to say you can’t talk about your dating life when she clearly does isn’t fair play for a friendship. Part of being friends is sharing each others ups, downs and sideways.
Andrea´s last blog ..Random Tuesday Thoughts : Sand Version
Comment by dadshouse
| August 25th, 2009
Teri – you’re right that my friend “felt” attacked. But I was there, and seriously, I didn’t think the bartender attacked her at all. I didn’t even notice he pointed a finger at her. She pointed that out to me, saying she took offense. I agree he was just blasting, and only at the end did he make it personal to her.
If she and I had been on a date, I would have totally waved the bartender off, protected her from him, and kept the night all about her and me. I’m an attentive date like that. But we were simply friends having drinks! We got into a barroom debate. She could have joined in. She chose not to. Plus, I’m used to hanging out with women who are confident enough to speak up when something bothers them. I certainly didn’t expect her to just up and walk out.
Comment by debra
| August 25th, 2009
Is it possible, though you never felt the chemistry was there between you two, that she did? Might explain her storming out when not defended, as you said you would with a date. Might explain why she feels so strongly that you give up on women too soon (because you gave up on her). Might explain why she doesn’t want to hear about your dating stories. She’s having a tough time being a good friend, because it’s not your friend that she wants to be?
Comment by Ambar
| August 25th, 2009
Uhm… I think your friend felt attacked and was also expecting you to defend her or at least to tell the guy to go away.
Of course she could speak for herself, but she choose not to and for that I think she was acting a bit like a spoiled kid -also kind of dramatic-, but yet again, it was her decision.
Comment by Laura
| August 25th, 2009
mmm I am not one to walk away from an argument so wouldnt have walked out but if I had felt really uncomfortable I may not have asked for date 2.
BUT if we were friends it wouldnt have bugged me at all!
Laura´s last blog ..My mom and I
Comment by MindyMom/Single Mom Says...
| August 25th, 2009
I agree with Teri. The bartender is an ass. As the friend you should have told him to go pour a drink instead of agreeing with him while he offend your friend.
I love a good debate too, but it wasn’t that. I would have told you both to f**k off first and if you kept going on the subject I would have left too. There is a difference between sharing your opinion and being offensive and it sounds more like it was the latter and not the former.
MindyMom/Single Mom Says…´s last blog ..GNO, Hot Mamas & Blog Love
Comment by Eathan
| August 25th, 2009
This is priceless. But I have to admit that Dallas is the exact opposite. The ratio of single women is so high compared to the single guys. And I can truthfully say it makes my life easier at times. I can stop dating someone today and have 3 dates for the rest of the week. And as I’ve mentioned on my site.. 3 dates in one day is my limit. It’s the supply and demand.
I’m still shocked that she walked out on you. At least you didn’t make a fool of yourself and chase her out the door.
“Don’t chase.. Replace”
Eathan´s last blog ..Back To School
Comment by katherine.
| August 25th, 2009
I’m with Teri and Mindy on this one.
Did the bartender really think HE should be able to dictate to her about refusing to discuss a subject that was…um…less than complimentary? Especially when she obviously didn’t want to be drawn in. She didn’t leave while you and he were talking…only when it became rather personal and somewhat insulting.
If the bartender pointed his finger at me with the:
“you are calling the shots, trying to get us to be a certain way. You’re just like every other Silicon Valley woman.”
He would have been lucky if I just slapped his hand away.
katherine.´s last blog ..Looking at the sky on Friday ~ The Boardwalk (12)
Comment by Cathy
| August 25th, 2009
Too intense? This woman is a conflict avoider. She probably can’t handle any situation that isn’t going well according to her terms.
If it happens again tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out.
Cathy´s last blog ..Voicemail Disaster:Don’t Be Like Dimitri The Stud!
Comment by Cheryl
| August 25th, 2009
David, hey. I’m assuming this single mom is either in her late 20’s or late 30’s, fairly young, attractive. Right? What qualities does she offer, in addition to her looks and youth?
I remember talking to two women years ago… one was in the Army and was “fought over.” Another worked in an all-male company and was one of six women under menopause. They boasted of their situations, felt exalted and special. When they were dropped into social circumstances where other attractive women were… they were no longer a commodity. Me, I took good looks in stride, having worked in advertising and had nothing but attractive women as coworkers, (and occasionally a glimpse of a male model).
To me, it seems as though the bartender was attracted to her and wanted to edge in to the conversation. Maybe she had a certain quality that reminded him of other women he’s dated. He wanted to vent and enlisted you as an ally.
Your friend felt outnumbered and (maybe) felt bullied. Perhaps she didn’t like hearing the truth. Who knows. I think a healthy dose of humor would have helped this situation enormously.
Saw an Oprah show with Dr. Laura Berman, who said something to the effect that women try to control everything, their lives, children, etc., and their men… but when they control their men too much, they start to see them (men) as children, and this kills their sex drive. Women crave a partner, even the “Alpha.” I see women talking to their husbands with contempt, yet going googly-eyed when a macho policeman is near.
A healthy balance is good. Partnership and flexibility is good. No one dominating… man or woman… good.
Trying to read a woman or a man today… has gotten a little crazy. Right? Dr. Berman cited a statistic, that women like being swept off their feet, which is why romance novels are so popular. I read another article on the AMC show, “Mad Men,” that the character of Don Draper makes women swoon. He’s a classic Alpha male, dominating, decisive, arrogant.
Or, there’s “Entourage,” where it’s about young guys ‘gettin’ some,’ (but they don’t strike me as Alphas, but randy), or equally cynical “Sex & the City” with their “dealbreakers.” Is anyone else sick of this? No one dates to have fun anymore! There is zilch romance or old-fashioned courtship. I had fun when I dated, and even when I didn’t, I could laugh about it later. I mean, I had adventures and they weren’t sexual or tawdry. I respected the men, they respected me.
If there is no quid pro quo, meaning, she talks endlessly about her dating life yet doesn’t want to hear about yours, this sounds a little prima donna-ish, not like a true friend. A psychologist told me that unhealthy relationships always tip to one side, one person giving, one taking. Ask yourself, “What am I getting out of this – friendship?”
You seem too savvy for this ‘friendship’ to be an unrequited crush.
Comment by dadshouse
| August 25th, 2009
Debra – back when I was seeing her a few summers ago, she was seeing another man at the same time. (Which is part of the reason things never got “romantic” between me and her.) So even if she did like me, she acted aloof toward me that summer, i.e. in much the manner the bartender accused her and other SV women of acting toward men. Maybe that’s why she stormed out – because his words hit so close to home for her. Like Danielle said, the things you perceive others think about you are things you don’t like about yourself (or something like that).
Dating is a two way street. It’s not for the woman to mold a man into exactly what she wants him to be. But some women who perceive themselves to be in high demand will act that way.
Mindy – yes, the bartender was an ass for joining the conversation the way he did. But aside from the finger pointing and last comment, I don’t think our conversation was offensive at all. I’m savvy enough to know what’s okay to talk about, and what’s not. But everyone’s different – clearly my friend was offended. I think that says more about her than it does about anything the bartender and I said.
Katherine – I see your point. I think that’s why I blogged about this experience. I know there are two sides.
Cheryl – she’s late 40s, attractive but not a knockout. The unique thing about her is she’s an artist. She’s very different than people who work in Silicon Valley high tech, and that’s a huge allure for some men.
It’s quite possible the bartender was hitting on her, in his own way. He did all this after he ascertained that she and I were “just friends”.
btw, your comment might have just set the record for longest Dad’s House comment ever. (Ha) But every word counted! You made good points.
Ambar – in retrospect, I should have defended her, whether she was my date or just a friend. I think I got tired of her telling me about all these men chasing her when it’s hard for me to find a single woman to date. The bartender’s “war stories” were more relatable to me. Still, that’s no excuse. I should have defended her.
Comment by ZenMom
| August 25th, 2009
Hmmm, I’m late to the party, it seems and all the good comments have already been taken. Shoot. Well, I’m going to throw out my two cents anyway.
I can see why your friend might have felt either left out of the conversation or “attacked” (though I think that interpretation is a bit over-sensitive based on your description.
BUT, there are certainly more mature and productive ways to handle the situation besides suddenly walking out in a huff.
Honestly, I think you owe her an apology for not paying better attention to her as your chosen companion for the evening (even if it wasn’t a “date”).
AND I think she owes you an apology for her immature reaction instead of just communicating with you about what was bothering her. She had other options besides walking out. That was rude.
Well, there’s my two cents. For what it’s worth. :)
ZenMom´s last blog ..Feelin’ Flirty
Comment by Sandrita
| August 25th, 2009
You sure know how to spark a debate and get comments, lol
I really think this has nothing to do with you and more with the bartender. She didn’t walk out on you.
She felt attacked by him, and you were talking to him and felt that you were agreeing with him.
She didn’t want to take it, so she stood up to leave. You didn’t do anything to stop her either, which resulted in her walking out. I think she did the right thing, as I think the bartender came on too strong. She was there for your company, not his, and he invited himself in the conversation.
I read about all the difficulties you have in dating, and the offenses women make. But for every offense you write about the same can be said for a man. It really does go both ways.
She is guilty of her dating mistakes which you are quick to point out (probably because the rejection you faced from her kinda stung) and so are you. How would you like to see your dating mistakes written about ? So no one is right or wrong here.
Sandrita´s last blog ..Finally, some answers…………….
Comment by Sandrita
| August 25th, 2009
I forgot to mention, that I think she did the right thing because the other alternative was to join in the conversation and argue with the bartender which would’ve no doubt gotten heated. Especially since he started off labeling her as every other woman without really getting to know her. And pointed at her. He wasn’t entering the debate on a friendly note.
So she could’ve either indulged him and had a nasty argument with him in public where there may have been raised voices. Or she could’ve removed herself and avoided conflict.
She chose to avoid the conflict.
Okay, I am done here.
Sandrita´s last blog ..Finally, some answers…………….
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| August 25th, 2009
Well golly. I guess I won’t write at my blog… I’ll just write here!
Here’s the thing. When he said that she doesn’t understand your predicament, he put her on the defensive. Then he said that Silicon Valley women don’t respect men because they don’t have to. Strike two. As her friend, you should have come to her defense in some way. Maybe by injecting humor. Whatever. But he needed to be put in his place. By a man. No you say you would do this if you were on a “date” with her, but since you were just friends meeting for a drink, didn’t feel obligated to protect her. I disagree.
I was once friends with a man who wanted to date me. He couldn’t because I was involved with another man. But we were great friends and loved to spend time together. I began to notice, though, that he didn’t give me much consideration. Perhaps because he resented the fact that our relationship couldn’t go where he wanted it to. I don’t know. But I do know that when he said to me, “Why don’t you break up with that dude and go out with me? I would treat you like a queen!” I said, “You don’t treat me like a queen NOW, why would I believe you would treat me better if we were involved?”
Cathouse Teri´s last blog ..Angels Can Fly…
Comment by Edgar
| August 25th, 2009
Actually, Sandrita, there was another option of which she chose not to avail herself, and which would have solved the whole problem with no muss and no fuss – she could have politely thanked the bartender for the drinks and asked David if he would like to move to a table. That way, she could let David know what other topics she would like to discuss, as he is a man of many interests.
The fact that she took the road of high drama and that she has has now told David that she no longer wants to discuss his affairs of the heart, after telling her tales for so long, seems pretty indicative of her general state of mind – which is probably not far from the characterization put forward by the bartender.
I’m sorry that the romance scene down your way is so skewed, David. Not that I would recommend Dallas as an alternative, but there do seem to be a lot of very attractive, very intriguing women just up 280 in the fog here.
Comment by Ditz
| August 25th, 2009
With a casual friend (not a close friend or date), being laughed at in a bar, being picked on? Yeah I probably would have walked out, too. Doesn’t matter if she was right or wrong, if I am not having an enjoyable time, there is no point in staying. She had nothing to lose by leaving.
Comment by dadshouse
| August 25th, 2009
Teri – the problem is, I sort of agreed with the bartender on his first two points (which you called strikes). His words resonated with me a bit, and I wanted to hear him out rather than tune him out. But yeah, I was out with her, and should have defended her no matter what.
Your second point is spot on wisdom. Well put!
Sandrita – I write about dating foibles with women because I date women. I know men make mistakes, but I don’t date men, and thus having nothing to say about that (except when I make mistakes). Also, if I couched every blog post with “men do this too”, things would get tedious here. Finally, to paraphrase Tolstoy: Good dates are all alike; every bad date is bad in its own way.
Edgar – great advice, I wish she had acted that way. And actually, I wish I had acted that way, too. I could have said “let’s grab a table” and put an end to the whole debate.
As for SF women – I have tried dating women in the city, but most live in the city for a reason. They want to be there. I want to be down here where I can be actively involved in my kids’ lives.
Ditz – she actually may have lost me as a friend. Her walking out on me didn’t go over well in my book. Her following it up by telling me to never talk about dating again was two strikes against her.
Comment by Sandrita
| August 25th, 2009
David,
You are right, it would get tedious. I will stop mentioning that. After all I write about dating mishaps all the time,
Never a dull moment in your comments.
I have to agree with Cathouse Teri though but not simply because I am a woman.
If I had a man friend join me for a drink and the female bartender started rambling on about how men are all the same, and pointed her finger at him, I would correct her and say that not all are like that and my neither is my friend. Or at the very least I would make a joke and offer to move to another table.
I have great male friends (the little that I do have) and wouldn’t want them to be uncomfortable like that.
Sandrita´s last blog ..Finally, some answers…………….
Comment by Jimmy
| August 25th, 2009
Hey Dave-
I know people beat around the bush, but isn’t a bartender supposed to kiss ass? Isn’t his goal maximum tips-not debating. I work sometimes with the public and rarely would give an opinion that would be controversial. My company is paying me not to piss people off.
Also not trying to offend anyone, but I don’t see the point of having a difficult platonic friend. When I date a woman I expect her to be somewhat willing to listen to my stuff as well as listen to hers-its called conversation. What the point of dealing with high maintenance with someone who isn’t even your gf?
Comment by Jimmy
| August 25th, 2009
One more thing-I really like Cheryl’s post-disappointed she didn’t have link to a blog-hopefully she will post here again.
Comment by Mark
| August 25th, 2009
A nerve was struck. It is a shame she did not engage in the conversation and voice her world view point. Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Mark´s last blog ..Heaven Can’t Wait
Comment by dadshouse
| August 25th, 2009
Jimmy – Cheryl blogs at Chicago Moms Blog. Here’s one of her pieces (she gave me her blessing to post the link): The (Shudder!) Alpha Mom
Comment by notasoccermom
| August 25th, 2009
hmmm friend? not sure I would call her a friend. she seems a bit defensive as though she may not ‘have others ready to move in’ with an attitude like that I doubt it.
notasoccermom´s last blog ..Breathing Easy- A rant
Comment by DelaineM
| August 25th, 2009
If I was out ‘catching up’ with a male friend, I sure wouldn’t enjoy this kind of conversation. Dave, she felt attacked; as if she was lumped into a slithering pool of conniving heartless bitches. I would have said: Hey – can we change the subject? But I guess she was beyond that. She took it personally. And I can see why she’d be pissed cause it wasn’t the time or place for debate.
This isn’t to say that you and the bartender didn’t have good points. But it was bad manners and friends shouldn’t put each other on the spot to the point of that kind of discomfort.
DelaineM´s last blog ..Voicemail Disaster: Do NOT act like Dimitri The Stud!
Comment by midmom
| August 25th, 2009
Dave,
I thought she was rude for walking out and not a true friend. She could have simply said “settle down boys” and left the drama for another mama! Aren’t you glad you never started a relationship with her?! Who has time and energy for all that!?
So when are you coming to Chitown already? Here the bartenders (male and female) regularly join the conversation and offer their opinions. And there are plenty of fun gals to grab a drink with. We don’t go to bars for intimate serious conversation, we go for fun social time!
Come through on your college tour this fall and say hi!
Comment by QTMama
| August 26th, 2009
Ugh, she sounds so … HIGH MAINTENANCE. Imagine telling someone who is supposed to be your friend – “You may not talk to me about this or this.”
WTF?
QTMama´s last blog ..A Weekend With MOG
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| August 26th, 2009
When in the world did your friend say that you may not talk about this subject? I didn’t get the impression that she was walking out on the subject. Just on you two and the approach you were taking. She walked out on a situation where she was not being respected as an individual.
Cathouse Teri´s last blog ..Angels Can Fly…
Comment by CJ
| August 26th, 2009
Cathouse Teri – Towards the end of the article he mentions that when he spoke with her later, she asked that he not talk with her about the dating aspect of his life anymore. This was the point at which I decided she was being overly dramatic and immature. (just my opinion) Next to last paragraph -
“She also said she didn’t want to hear about my dating struggles. She asked that I never talk about that aspect of my life again.”
CJ´s last blog ..Well, it’s started again…
Comment by Single Mom in New England
| August 26th, 2009
I think she LIKES you… else why would she not want to hear about your dating troubles any more? Did you ever think about that? She was frustrated when you and the bartender appeared to have more fiery chemistry than the two of you… maybe she was hoping something would click between you two… so when it didn’t happen, she got fed up and left! :)
Comment by Cathouse Teri
| August 26th, 2009
CJ ~ Ah… I totally missed that! I had even re-read the article to see if I missed it. But there are many things friends choose not to discuss. Religion and politics, just to mention two of them.
I do understand if she said she didn’t want to hear any more about David’s “dating struggles” if that’s all she hears about. Or if those discussions continually lean in the direction this bar conversation did. I’ve not known David long and have only met him twice in person. Both times he was very conversationally capable and interesting and did not steer constantly toward the “poor me in the dating world” theme.
But I do believe, in the way that David presented the facts in this case, that she was disrespected as a partcipant in this scenario.
Cathouse Teri´s last blog ..Angels Can Fly…
Comment by Lance
| August 26th, 2009
Obviously, the chick is a little insecure about what she has going on in her dating life or is totally unused to talking about the subject. The bartender probably shouldn’t have waggled his finger and yes it’s a little threatening to get teamed up on by two dudes, but she should have played it cool and rolled with it.
Lance´s last blog ..One Super Important Thing I Learned From Dating Three Chicks At Once
Comment by krn
| August 27th, 2009
Great post and comments.
Dad’s wasn’t responsible for protecting or defending his friend, though that might have been a kind thing to attempt. The woman has her own voice. It’s her right and responsiblity to defend herself, and it sounds like she might have been better served to have chosen that approach instead. Walking out is impolite and reeks of avoidance, but since she was very offended, felt threatened and teamed up on, I understand her position. That being said, it sounds like a really interesting conversation in which she had an opportunity to clear up any misconceptions and provide some needed insight. Too bad she wasn’t up for it that night.
Silicon Valley here I come! ;)
Comment by Bobbi Janay
| August 28th, 2009
I have been a lurker for a while and decided to comment out of hiding do to this post. First of all her not wanting you to talk about who you are dating is unfair if she can’t do the same. Also as someone who used to bar tend in college that is the kind of thing bar tenders do.
Bobbi Janay´s last blog ..Drawing Strength From Being An Innie
Comment by alley
| August 30th, 2009
Well, I’m just a single mom in kansas who works full time and attends school full time, so the time left for dating is negligible to the point that I have officially put the whole thing on hiatus. But anyway, here’s my take. First of all, I think it was a bit rude for the guy to inject himself in the conversation, and more so for you, her companion to allow it when it was excluding her. That’s actually a deal breaker for me, weather it be friend, boyfriend, what ever, don’t ask me to hang out and then exclude and ignore me. Second, her reaction seems a bit over blown, but if she’s an artist it could be that she has a more dramatic flair than the rest of us.
Third, if the single dude to single female ratio is that out of whack there, I may relocate, how much do teachers make there?
Fourth, and this is probably the only thing that might be at all worth reading, maybe if you are having the same problem over and over, you are going after the wrong women? Maybe the fun for you is in the chase and not in the catching? So maybe you are going after women with personalities that cause them to drop men when things get a bit complicated and who like having attention from lots of men and wont be exclusive? I know you’ve sated before you have a specific type, but maybe its time to change things up just a bit.
Comment by canadian52
| August 31st, 2009
WOW! She was clearly very touchy on the subject. But, your observations were truthful. Here’s a blog entry you’ll appreciate that questions if narcissism is part of the female condition. http://kenbesseder.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/what-happened-with-me-and-jane/
Comment by The Exception
| August 31st, 2009
Although I can see several of the points above, I would have enjoyed the debate as well – never pass up the chance to engage and learn more and find out something new!!
The Exception´s last blog ..Mountain Vacation